PARASITE open thread!

[seanan_mcguire]

To (somewhat belatedly) celebrate the release of Parasite, here. Have an open thread to discuss the book.

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

Seriously. If anyone comments here at all, THERE WILL BE SPOILERS. So please don't read and then yell at me because you encountered spoilers. You were warned. (I will not reply to every comment; I call partial comment amnesty. But I may well join some of the discussion, or answer questions or whatnot.)

You can also start a book discussion at my website forums, with less need to be concerned that I will see everything you say! In case you wanted, you know, discussion free of authorial influence, since I always wind up getting involved in these things.

Have fun!

Comments

[disposable002 (from livejournal.com)]

I really enjoyed the book. I wasn't sure that I would, the premise isn't really something that would have drawn me in but, since I've liked everything else Seanan/Mira has written, I gave it a shot. It was well worth it. As with all of her books, time flew by and I finished it all too soon. There was a big reveal for the protagonist that I saw coming from miles away as a reader. I think that we are supposed to see it coming; the suspense was in awaiting the character's realization. The ending was almost physically painful, since Big Things are about to happen. Fortunately, the next book is coming out reasonably soon.

I would recommend this for anybody with an interest in genetic engineering, and ethics in medicine. Also, anybody with a tapeworm. Also, tapeworms with an anybody.

[aiela.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'd figured out the "big reveal" before the book had even postulated that it was possible. I choose to believe this is intentional, because Seanan can be sneaky when she wants to, so I don't think she wanted to. I will admit it was a bit frustrating to me, though, to constantly go "WELL DUH BECAUSE X!"

I did see a post on...goodreads, I think? where someone was like "How could Symbogenesis not have known?" and it threw me, because to me, OBVIOUSLY they knew. Why else would they be so interested in her? It wasn't simply because her worm "saved" her. They knew full well what was going on, and wanted to study it. And they didn't want her to know.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

Three chapters in, and enjoying it muchly, and am thus staying the hell out of here as soon as anyone else comments.

I do have strong echoes of an excellen short story that no amount of Google-fu is readily revealing the title of, where th protagonist (also a young woman) has her personality go through a disconitnuity (in that case, as a result of a party drug that basically disrupts the storage of short term memory, IIRC), and so I was wondering if you might have read the same story (I think it's maybe five or ten years old, and I think I have it in one of the twenty-mumble "Years Best SF" compendiums with Gardner Dozois' name on the spine I've got on my shelves) and put your own tapeworm-flavored spin on it.

Which is to say, I liked that, and I like this so far, and am going to be parking my ass in a hammock to read because I had to work half a day today.

[jenfullmoon.livejournal.com]

Non-spoiler, non-book-related recommendation:

This reminded me of the awesome book The Rook by Daniel O'Malley, featuring a heroine who's had her memories wiped completely, who's learning her new world through the dossiers and letters that she wrote for her future self before the wipe.

[beccastareyes]

I was wondering exactly how self-aware the tapeworms were before they went mucking about in the human nervous system. Mostly because I was thinking about sense-of-self and how much of the tapeworms' senses were shaped by their container, so to speak -- if you have something using a human brain to think its thoughts, a lot of those thoughts would end up human-shaped*, with the worm-secreted neurotransmitters on top of that. Then again, Sal did think of herself as human (albeit one with quirks and a few that couldn't be explained by 'had to go through childhood two times, once with an effectively adult mind'), and AFAIK, she was the only character who didn't go through life knowing what was in her brain. It could be that self-image is set by what you are told (which seems really obvious when I put it like that); that being 'raised' knowing you are a genetically engineered tapeworm put in a brain-dead human body makes it hard to feel empathy for humans who keep their tapeworms in their guts.

Since what's his face (I read this at 2AM, and have forgotten all names except the protagonist's) the PA tapeworm mole seems to present the tapeworms trying to take over still-thinking hosts as acting consciously, rather than on instinct, but... well, I know plenty of people (including myself) who use language that implies intent when we know there is none, and we're not even trying to make some kind of point of solidarity.

Sal seems to have fragmentary memories of not being wedded to Sally's central nervous system, which supports some idea of memory and consciousness. (I think my vertebrate bias is showing: something the size of a tapeworm in a boring environment like the human gut, doesn't seem like a candidate for needing a centralized nervous system, and I can't imagine why the designers would think one was a good idea**.)

* Granted, human thoughts come in a lot of shapes, especially when you consider that many of tapeworm characters we meet had hosts sufficiently brain damaged that there was nothing left in the driver's seat, so to speak.

** Then again, mad science is full of 'What the Hell were you thinking in putting that in there!?' moments. Like putting genes from protozoa known for having effects on human neurochemistry in symbiotes. (Then again, if you want to, say, medicate for mental illness, that might be a feature, not a bug, until it starts doing things you don't want it to do.)

[herefox.livejournal.com]

I got the impression that part of the reason the tapeworms had consciousness was related to them having had human DNA added to them to help keep them from being rejected. But I totally could be wrong with that one.

[ginger]

"Silent Hill" is one of my favorite Seanan songs, chock full of lines with beautiful and haunting imagery. In fact, I've contemplated a tattoo of the line "sometimes love is treason." So imagine my level of squee when I started recognizing lines from the song in Parasite, attributed to a children's book. And then there were more excerpts from this book - some that I recognized from the song, others that I didn't, but really wanted to.

So what I wondered was twofold -- first, which came first, "Silent Hill" or the theoretical children's book? And second, will we ever get a chance to see more of the text of that book, or did only the excerpts needed for Parasite get written? I'm assuming the latter, but not gonna lie, if the children's book (or even just the text of it, not necessarily a fancy published book format) were to eventually become available a la Dean Koontz's Book of Counted Sorrows (which he excerpted in about four kafrillion novels before he actually wrote the thing) I would be all over that like a fangirling squeeing thing.

[shiyiya.livejournal.com]

I cosign this comment (aside from the tattoo thing). I spent most of my time reading Parasite listening to Silent Hill on repeat. I squeed a lot!

[bekitty.livejournal.com]

For me, the "big reveal" wasn't about Sal at all. I was more suprised by Sherman.

Also, Tansy reminded me of Foxy from the Newsflesh books. Was she modelled on the same RL person? (Admittedly, when I read the name "Tansy", my immediate first thought was of Tansy Rayner Roberts, so in my headcanon she's got an Australian accent...)

I've also got to say that I love, love, LOVE the fact that your characters are so diverse! :D

[geekhyena.livejournal.com]

Tansy and Foxy share similar headspaces for me, though different head-voices. Foxy is more like Pinkie Pie, but Tansy is more like Harley Quinn or Tiny Tina from Borderlands 2 (my girlfriend keeps hearing Tina's voice, at least. She's not read Newsflesh yet, but I will be curious as to what she thinks of Foxy when she does)

Sherman was a surprise. And makes sense why he kept flirting with her - they were of a kind, more or less.

[tsgeisel.livejournal.com]

So, are we ever going to see Don't Go Out Alone published as a separate book? Because if so, I recommend Randy Milholland (better known for "Something Positive", but look at his "Rhymes With Witch" cartoons (http://www.rhymes-with-witch.com/)) to do the illustration.

It would not be an unheard of move, as my copy of "Where's My Cow?" (autographed, even) will attest.

That said, I had a lot of fun, but I still fail to understand how, despite the name, Symbogen continued to refer to their product as a "parasite" as opposed to a "symbiote". Or maybe that will be the title for the final book in the series, given that "parasite" is definitely the appropriate term for what's going on.

[shanejayell.livejournal.com]

I second a request for Don't Go Out Alone. :D

[shanejayell.livejournal.com]

Yeah, was also not surprised by Sal's revelations. In fact I was occassionally annoyed SHE hadn't clued in yet. Ha.

I like how, in the book, we get different views of events from different people and it's not necessarily SAID who's telling the truth. Is Banks lying? Is Sherman? Is the Doc? We'll have to wait & see how things play out.

[larry osterman (from livejournal.com)]

Actually I think that was one of the things I liked most about the story - that she DIDN'T figure it out until the end. I kept shouting "Why don't you get it?" but I think I understand why Seanan/Mira kept her in the dark.

At some level, discovering that Sal's identity is actually that of a nascent parasite would be world shattering. Even though she's been given lots of clues about it (her negative reactions to anti-parasitic drugs for example), she's going to reject any ideas that might lead her to the fact that her identity is really tied to the worm living in her stomach and not the body in which she lives. So denial is absolutely the right reaction for Sal until she's presented with incontrovertible evidence that she's really a worm in a person's body.

[geekhyena.livejournal.com]

The head of my department (animal biology at UCD) says half the department's already read it and the other half is planning on it. It's very interesting when it comes to transgenics and the ethics, certainly. Also the sight of this distinguished, very much no-nonsense professor squeeing when he saw I'd brought my copy to class was disconcerting yet adorable.

Also, loving Dr. Cale. She's quite madly brilliant - you have a good track-record of creating awesome, badass scientists like that. And the dogs are wonderful. Your use of animals is also great ^_^ (I miss Joe from Newsflesh. He was best dog)

My girlfriend and I have been squeeing over this book since we finished it. So awesome!

[shanejayell.livejournal.com]

*lol* I like your Department.

Dr. Cale is one of those great Mira Grant characters. Extremely likeable, but also subtly scary.

[larry osterman (from livejournal.com)]

Finally! I've been anxiously awaiting for the open thread.

I loved the book (read it at almost one sitting). I truly loved the "Don't Go Out Alone" concept. And I as with many others didn't see Sherman coming. Tansy was/is very special :).

My one big disappointment was that the book re-used the "Scientist holed up in a secret high tech laboratory in an abandoned [office complex/bowling alley] whose sole purpose appears to be to provide necessary plot exposition" plot device that was introduced in Deadline. I recognize that in a book of this nature it's important to have a character who provides expository elements, but I wish there was a way of providing that which didn't rely on a "been there, done that" trope. Oh and the zombies. Did there really have to be zombies?

Other than those two elements, I really did enjoy the book. I really like Sal and I'm excited to see where the story goes.

[hardys kindle (from livejournal.com)]

Dammit, Mira, what's that smell? Are you breeding super soldiers in the basement again?

Seriously, if there's going to be a tapeworm uprising in the second book, somebody should do something against it. It would probably be best if USAMRIID developed tapeworm supersoldiers of their own. Sal's Dad would sem to be a good choice for the job. Whats the worst that could happen?

[shanejayell.livejournal.com]

.....

I HOPE you're joking. *lol* It's so hard to tell with net posts.

(Wonder if Joyce will be subject one?)

[lysystratae.livejournal.com]

When Dr Cale referenced Eve, did she mean Sal? I've wondered about that for a bit, but can't figure out if the timing would work.

[shanejayell.livejournal.com]

I think so. It SOUNDS at least like Sal may have been the first viable case of a woman being taken over.

(Or Seanan plans a surprise with Eve in book 2. I would not put it past her.)

[destructothemad.livejournal.com]

Did I spot a couple of easter eggs in the book, or am I just being over imaginative? Is Dr. Cale modelled on Seanan (at least in appearance)? And is Tansy based on one of her cats?

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Nope, and nope.

Dr. Cale is modeled after her namesake.

Tansy is mostly just Tansy, with very small elements of a girl I used to go to group therapy with.

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

I loved this book. I wasn't gonna read it, because tapeworms and I'm a horror wimp, but I read a sample chapter somewhere (I suspect that was the fault of spectralbovine) and then I got an ARC, so I read and reviewed it for Smart Bitches.

I was also like, "Um, it's increasingly obvious that Sal is a tapeworm, so... uh... is this supposed to be a surprise?" and while apparently it's not, I still felt very smug at the time.

The only quibbles I really had were that Tansy and Dr. Cale felt at their introductions like retreads of Fox and Dr. Shannon. They eventually did break away from that feeling, but I did spend some time going, "Um, but we did this?"

Asking authors to please write faster, even as a (terrible, unfunny) joke, is obnoxious, so I'm just sitting here. Quietly. Possibly quivering with anticipation.

[morvoren.livejournal.com]

Another awesome book! I picked it up the day it came out and only managed to stop reading at 1am because I had a work function the next day. Devi and Sherman managed to make me cry, though less so at Sherman's reintroduction. I'm eagerly awaiting the next book.

Will you ever post/publish the full text of "Don't Go Out Alone"? The little snippits are very tantalizing and I would love to see the full story.

How do you pronounce Chave's name? Every time I read it my brain wants to go a different way, and it's kinda bumping me out of the story. Hopefully you can correct that for me please?

[hymnia.livejournal.com]

The narrator on the audiobook pronounces it with a hard "ch" as in "child" and rhyming with "Dave".

[laurenthemself]

I loved it. I couldn't put it down. As usual.

I sort of guessed Sal's big secret but the reveal was beautiful for her shock.

I had a marvellous time reading ~35 pages of it out loud to my friend Figgy when we were driving from a NaNoWriMo event to my house (she was driving, obviously). I'm pants at doing different voices, but I tried to make them fairly distinct from the narrative, and she just didn't want me to stop! It was great fun!

[morningapproach.livejournal.com]

I read the book in 2 days, just after it came out. I really enjoyed it, but I wanted to scream at how predictable it was, her being a tapeworm. Right at the prologue I got it, and I understood where the book was going. I get the reveal for the character was important, but I wanted there to be more of a suspense and a twist for the reader.

There was one thing I was confused about. It said that Sherman left Cale's lab just before Sal's accident, but for some reason I thought that Sal was the first tapeworm to activate all the way and be successful in the reanimation.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Sal was the first implant to successfully take over her host without any medical intervention. She did it all on her own. She's an achiever, our Sal.

I get that tomato in the mirror is a classic trope, but there's a reason for that. I'm sorry you found it so predictable. I've never claimed to write "twist" books; thus far, I don't think I ever have. Sal would have shattered if she'd figured out her own nature any earlier than she did, and Sal was the character I wanted to write this time. She's not an action girl or a hard girl; she needed to be eased into things.

There are many ways of being strong.

[groblek.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the open thread, Seanan!

I really liked this book, partially for the very different sort of start than Feed. Feed grabbed me by throat and dragged me along for the ride, while Parasite left me with a slowly growing sense of dread as I kept waiting to see just how bad things were going to get. I will totally be spreading this one around - starting with the new Microbiology instructor at work, I think as she's got a background in parasitology and likes SF.

I enjoyed seeing things from Sal's very naive (and quite justifiably so) perspective - I liked the sense of catching on before she did and waiting to see when she'd figure things out. All the various characters are a lot of fun. I'm amused that my first reaction to the scene at Sal's father's workplace was to think "It's about time someone build a BSL4 facility on the West Coast." :)

Also, I'll freely admit to poking around online to see if "Don't Go Out Alone" was a real children's book, in the hopes of getting a copy to read to Josh. I wasn't surprised to learn that it was Seanan's creation for the story, but figured it was worth a try. :) I'd be a little concerned about what that says of my parenting, but he's already obsessed with Rippy the Gator and is fond of saying "Bwahahaha", and still seems to be turning out fine.

[allan mccoy (from livejournal.com)]

minor quibble- the cell phone works in the bridge that the bugs don't work in because it is a Faraday cage? I suppose the bridge could have cell phone repeaters, but then you couldn't be sure the bugs wouldn't be repeatered too...

[emerald-ibis.livejournal.com]

Not reading the thread because not finished yet (moving and working will do that). But just need to say this:

Tansy = Pinkie Pie

[mathochist.livejournal.com]

Loved the book. As always.

One comment for Seanan on a very minor detail, in case it comes up in future books in the series: Sal brought up the possibility of using Beverly as a service dog, with her "service" being personal protection. Of course, Sal wouldn't be expected to know anything about service dogs at this point. And this may have been a passing idea that Sal actually would never have intended to follow up on, in which case the information in this comment is totally unnecessary and the comment is ridiculously long for no real reason. But just In case...

If Sal was to research this, she will learn that a protection dog does not qualify as a service dog. In fact, it's generally felt that dogs trained as protection dogs cannot be service dogs. Service dogs need to get along with the public and pose no threat, and to count on their handlers to make all the judgment calls, at least as regards other humans, and to do all the protecting.

There is no certification for service dogs in the U.S. in general. I think there is in CA, some sort of state certification, but I don't know much about that. CA may be the only state that has this. outside of CA, some programs issue "certifications" for their dogs, but it doesn't really mean anything. Largely it just confuses the public, adding to the mistaken perception that an owner should be able to produce some kind of document to prove their dog is a service dog, when in fact no such document exists or is required.

Regardless of state, to be a service dog, the dog's owner must have a disability, and the dog must be trained to do tasks to mediate that disability. That's all the law requires. But people with service dogs (at least, the bulk of the service dog community) will be pretty unhappy if your service dog is not also trained with impeccable public access skills. Understandably, since dogs with poor manners being presented as service dogs make it harder for anyone a service dog to be welcome in public.

As far as public access, people with disabilities are allowed to take their service dogs into most public places, but they can also be asked to remove the dog if the dog is disruptive in any way. There are exceptions to being able to take a service dog "anywhere", too, and I don't know all of them, but I believe military or government-owned properties have separate laws. Also, the laws covering housing rights are different from the laws covering public access, and workplace accommodation is another matter entirely. You're not automatically allowed to take a service dog to work... Having the dog there needs to be evaluated as a "reasonable accommodation" on a case-by-case basis.

It's a pretty complicated subject, all in all. Sal's apparent lack of a disability will disqualify her from having a service dog, so the details will probably be moot. She could develop a disability or discover one, though. Or she could decide to pass Beverly off as a service dog to bring her places, knowing that this would make many service dog owners grouchy.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I am fully aware of all these things. :)

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

I haven't quite finished _Parasite_ yet, so I'm not reading the other comments yet.

However, I think I have come to a conclusion.

I think it was Flannery O'Connor who said something like, "The truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off."

I think a comparable Seanan McGuire / Mira Grant quote might be, "Science will make everything allllll better. And then it will fuck you over big time."

[ithiliana.livejournal.com]

I absolutely loved it--the dogs (YAY!), the ways in which the narrative deftly drops hints at Sal's nature while she does not see it (I was reading it as a combination of naivete plus just how much she had to deal with during her short life), and definitely adoring Dr. Cale and Tansy and would so buy "Don't Go Out Alone." INCREDIBLE!

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed it too -- for me the drama was in watching Sal fight against what we all knew, and what she subconsciously knew but didn't want to admit to herself. There were so many clues for the reader which went right by her, because she wanted them to go right by her -- the beating of the drums (which I admit also took me to a happy Doctor Who place :-), the comfort in the gel ultrasound... it makes her a fascinatingly unreliable narrator about her own self, though I think she's reliable about everything else.

Sal and Nathan are both fabulous characters, and I'm psyched to see more of them.

(btw, I posted a bit about the book on my own journal, and if anyone else wants to come natter over there, feel free! It's here on dw (http://kass.dreamwidth.org/1160561.html) and here on lj (http://kassrachel.livejournal.com/1164583.html) though so far the conversation's happening at dw.)

[etcet.livejournal.com]

Finally finished, and am wondering.... how the heck were the sleepwalkers aware of her name? Maybe I'm missing something...

[pilgrim3.livejournal.com]

Just finished Parasite last week and found it an enjoyable read. But there were a few weak spots.
The way Sal speaks. I know she's learned English from scratch, but its weird. Not sure if its a plus or a minus.
The big reveal about Sal - saw it coming as soon as Adam and Tansy were brought into the frame.
Sal's dad. OK, he wouldn't be sweeping the house for bugs. His security team would be. And they'd also be evacuating the family to a secure facility as soon as the shit started hitting.
Also, he treated Sal like she was a willing enemy agent. Please. Again, if push came to shove, polite persuasive long term interrogations, possibly backed up with fMRI would yield amazing results. Plus that his daughter is a worm in a human suit.
Symbogen vs. US government. Really? Really? If push came to shove, I doubt that SG could stand against the FBI, or if the feds got pissed enough, the Marine expeditionary force. To borrow from Stalin, how many armored divisions does Symbogen have?
Banks. If he's a brilliant paranoid, he's incompetent at it. And so is his head of security. Two (possibly more) rival organizations infiltrated his company at very high levels within striking distance of him. At this point, he needs to throw himself on the mercy of the feds. Why? Because a lot more countries than the US are going to be looking for his scalp as the news creeps out. And I suspect they will be a lot less nice.
Dr. Cale. OK, who is backing her? All that lab equipment, counterespionage, fake identities, coma cases and similar gear does not come cheap. Who pays for it all? A benevolent billionaire (complete with volcano lair)? The mafia? The Feds?

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Although I appreciate your criticism, and you absolutely have a right to it, please don't post negative reviews directly to my journal? It's inappropriate for me to address your concerns in a public forum, so all you've really managed to do is make me feel bad. :(