PARASITE open thread!

[seanan_mcguire]

To (somewhat belatedly) celebrate the release of Parasite, here. Have an open thread to discuss the book.

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

Seriously. If anyone comments here at all, THERE WILL BE SPOILERS. So please don't read and then yell at me because you encountered spoilers. You were warned. (I will not reply to every comment; I call partial comment amnesty. But I may well join some of the discussion, or answer questions or whatnot.)

You can also start a book discussion at my website forums, with less need to be concerned that I will see everything you say! In case you wanted, you know, discussion free of authorial influence, since I always wind up getting involved in these things.

Have fun!

Comments

[disposable002 (from livejournal.com)]

I really enjoyed the book. I wasn't sure that I would, the premise isn't really something that would have drawn me in but, since I've liked everything else Seanan/Mira has written, I gave it a shot. It was well worth it. As with all of her books, time flew by and I finished it all too soon. There was a big reveal for the protagonist that I saw coming from miles away as a reader. I think that we are supposed to see it coming; the suspense was in awaiting the character's realization. The ending was almost physically painful, since Big Things are about to happen. Fortunately, the next book is coming out reasonably soon.

I would recommend this for anybody with an interest in genetic engineering, and ethics in medicine. Also, anybody with a tapeworm. Also, tapeworms with an anybody.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

Three chapters in, and enjoying it muchly, and am thus staying the hell out of here as soon as anyone else comments.

I do have strong echoes of an excellen short story that no amount of Google-fu is readily revealing the title of, where th protagonist (also a young woman) has her personality go through a disconitnuity (in that case, as a result of a party drug that basically disrupts the storage of short term memory, IIRC), and so I was wondering if you might have read the same story (I think it's maybe five or ten years old, and I think I have it in one of the twenty-mumble "Years Best SF" compendiums with Gardner Dozois' name on the spine I've got on my shelves) and put your own tapeworm-flavored spin on it.

Which is to say, I liked that, and I like this so far, and am going to be parking my ass in a hammock to read because I had to work half a day today.

[aiela.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'd figured out the "big reveal" before the book had even postulated that it was possible. I choose to believe this is intentional, because Seanan can be sneaky when she wants to, so I don't think she wanted to. I will admit it was a bit frustrating to me, though, to constantly go "WELL DUH BECAUSE X!"

I did see a post on...goodreads, I think? where someone was like "How could Symbogenesis not have known?" and it threw me, because to me, OBVIOUSLY they knew. Why else would they be so interested in her? It wasn't simply because her worm "saved" her. They knew full well what was going on, and wanted to study it. And they didn't want her to know.

[herefox.livejournal.com]

I think it was intentional to see it. Which makes me nervous because the last time Seanan had a 'Well, duh' was with the villain in the first feed book and it was the one criticism I kept hearing about the book....and then it turned out to be slight of hand, sort of.

[beccastareyes]

I was wondering exactly how self-aware the tapeworms were before they went mucking about in the human nervous system. Mostly because I was thinking about sense-of-self and how much of the tapeworms' senses were shaped by their container, so to speak -- if you have something using a human brain to think its thoughts, a lot of those thoughts would end up human-shaped*, with the worm-secreted neurotransmitters on top of that. Then again, Sal did think of herself as human (albeit one with quirks and a few that couldn't be explained by 'had to go through childhood two times, once with an effectively adult mind'), and AFAIK, she was the only character who didn't go through life knowing what was in her brain. It could be that self-image is set by what you are told (which seems really obvious when I put it like that); that being 'raised' knowing you are a genetically engineered tapeworm put in a brain-dead human body makes it hard to feel empathy for humans who keep their tapeworms in their guts.

Since what's his face (I read this at 2AM, and have forgotten all names except the protagonist's) the PA tapeworm mole seems to present the tapeworms trying to take over still-thinking hosts as acting consciously, rather than on instinct, but... well, I know plenty of people (including myself) who use language that implies intent when we know there is none, and we're not even trying to make some kind of point of solidarity.

Sal seems to have fragmentary memories of not being wedded to Sally's central nervous system, which supports some idea of memory and consciousness. (I think my vertebrate bias is showing: something the size of a tapeworm in a boring environment like the human gut, doesn't seem like a candidate for needing a centralized nervous system, and I can't imagine why the designers would think one was a good idea**.)

* Granted, human thoughts come in a lot of shapes, especially when you consider that many of tapeworm characters we meet had hosts sufficiently brain damaged that there was nothing left in the driver's seat, so to speak.

** Then again, mad science is full of 'What the Hell were you thinking in putting that in there!?' moments. Like putting genes from protozoa known for having effects on human neurochemistry in symbiotes. (Then again, if you want to, say, medicate for mental illness, that might be a feature, not a bug, until it starts doing things you don't want it to do.)

[beccastareyes]

Yes; I assume that when a a patient spontaneously recovers from a coma, but lacks any memory (either of their life experiences or operational memory of things like 'speech' and 'walking'), one would do a MRI to assess brain damage. Since Sal makes a point of telling us exactly how much testing she's had done, and Symbogen knew what was in their worms (unlike the doctors in the ER) and that they were directly crediting them with Sal's survival, I can't imagine they'd overlook this.

Heck, it could explain why they were so interested in keeping Sal on-campus as much as possible, as well as why they paid for her medical care: both to study her more and to keep other interested parties (like the government) from finding out what was up. I suspect only the fact neither Sal nor her parents trusted them (and her parents were well-connected enough to raise a giant stink) preserved Sal's freedom as long as it did.

[aiela.livejournal.com]

Exactly. They didn't want anyone else looking at her too closely.

[ginger]

"Silent Hill" is one of my favorite Seanan songs, chock full of lines with beautiful and haunting imagery. In fact, I've contemplated a tattoo of the line "sometimes love is treason." So imagine my level of squee when I started recognizing lines from the song in Parasite, attributed to a children's book. And then there were more excerpts from this book - some that I recognized from the song, others that I didn't, but really wanted to.

So what I wondered was twofold -- first, which came first, "Silent Hill" or the theoretical children's book? And second, will we ever get a chance to see more of the text of that book, or did only the excerpts needed for Parasite get written? I'm assuming the latter, but not gonna lie, if the children's book (or even just the text of it, not necessarily a fancy published book format) were to eventually become available a la Dean Koontz's Book of Counted Sorrows (which he excerpted in about four kafrillion novels before he actually wrote the thing) I would be all over that like a fangirling squeeing thing.

[bekitty.livejournal.com]

For me, the "big reveal" wasn't about Sal at all. I was more suprised by Sherman.

Also, Tansy reminded me of Foxy from the Newsflesh books. Was she modelled on the same RL person? (Admittedly, when I read the name "Tansy", my immediate first thought was of Tansy Rayner Roberts, so in my headcanon she's got an Australian accent...)

I've also got to say that I love, love, LOVE the fact that your characters are so diverse! :D

[herefox.livejournal.com]

I got the impression that part of the reason the tapeworms had consciousness was related to them having had human DNA added to them to help keep them from being rejected. But I totally could be wrong with that one.

[tsgeisel.livejournal.com]

So, are we ever going to see Don't Go Out Alone published as a separate book? Because if so, I recommend Randy Milholland (better known for "Something Positive", but look at his "Rhymes With Witch" cartoons (http://www.rhymes-with-witch.com/)) to do the illustration.

It would not be an unheard of move, as my copy of "Where's My Cow?" (autographed, even) will attest.

That said, I had a lot of fun, but I still fail to understand how, despite the name, Symbogen continued to refer to their product as a "parasite" as opposed to a "symbiote". Or maybe that will be the title for the final book in the series, given that "parasite" is definitely the appropriate term for what's going on.

[geekhyena.livejournal.com]

Tansy and Foxy share similar headspaces for me, though different head-voices. Foxy is more like Pinkie Pie, but Tansy is more like Harley Quinn or Tiny Tina from Borderlands 2 (my girlfriend keeps hearing Tina's voice, at least. She's not read Newsflesh yet, but I will be curious as to what she thinks of Foxy when she does)

Sherman was a surprise. And makes sense why he kept flirting with her - they were of a kind, more or less.

[shanejayell.livejournal.com]

Yeah, was also not surprised by Sal's revelations. In fact I was occassionally annoyed SHE hadn't clued in yet. Ha.

I like how, in the book, we get different views of events from different people and it's not necessarily SAID who's telling the truth. Is Banks lying? Is Sherman? Is the Doc? We'll have to wait & see how things play out.

[geekhyena.livejournal.com]

The head of my department (animal biology at UCD) says half the department's already read it and the other half is planning on it. It's very interesting when it comes to transgenics and the ethics, certainly. Also the sight of this distinguished, very much no-nonsense professor squeeing when he saw I'd brought my copy to class was disconcerting yet adorable.

Also, loving Dr. Cale. She's quite madly brilliant - you have a good track-record of creating awesome, badass scientists like that. And the dogs are wonderful. Your use of animals is also great ^_^ (I miss Joe from Newsflesh. He was best dog)

My girlfriend and I have been squeeing over this book since we finished it. So awesome!

[shanejayell.livejournal.com]

I second a request for Don't Go Out Alone. :D

[beccastareyes]

Fair enough, but they'd still have to develop some sort of nervous system analog with that DNA. Humans only do their thinking with one part of their body, jokes aside.

[shanejayell.livejournal.com]

One also wonders how much evidence was destroyed after the acident too. The hospital records HAD to have either been switched or destroyed, to make sure no scans of Sal's brain were on file.

It's also interesting that Sal never talked to witnesses of the accident. Maybe she was encouraged not to?

[beccastareyes]

True. Or medical staff offered cushy jobs with Symbogen because 'well, you just made yourself an expert on this case'.

[museclio]

That was my take as well. They knew.

[shanejayell.livejournal.com]

*lol* I like your Department.

Dr. Cale is one of those great Mira Grant characters. Extremely likeable, but also subtly scary.

[larry osterman (from livejournal.com)]

Finally! I've been anxiously awaiting for the open thread.

I loved the book (read it at almost one sitting). I truly loved the "Don't Go Out Alone" concept. And I as with many others didn't see Sherman coming. Tansy was/is very special :).

My one big disappointment was that the book re-used the "Scientist holed up in a secret high tech laboratory in an abandoned [office complex/bowling alley] whose sole purpose appears to be to provide necessary plot exposition" plot device that was introduced in Deadline. I recognize that in a book of this nature it's important to have a character who provides expository elements, but I wish there was a way of providing that which didn't rely on a "been there, done that" trope. Oh and the zombies. Did there really have to be zombies?

Other than those two elements, I really did enjoy the book. I really like Sal and I'm excited to see where the story goes.

[shanejayell.livejournal.com]

I noticed the resemblance too! *lol*

[lysystratae.livejournal.com]

Oh wow. Randy would be perfect for the illustrations.

[hardys kindle (from livejournal.com)]

Dammit, Mira, what's that smell? Are you breeding super soldiers in the basement again?

Seriously, if there's going to be a tapeworm uprising in the second book, somebody should do something against it. It would probably be best if USAMRIID developed tapeworm supersoldiers of their own. Sal's Dad would sem to be a good choice for the job. Whats the worst that could happen?

[geekhyena.livejournal.com]

UC Davis has a high proportion of professors who fall somewhere on the mad scientist scale, from what I've found. Maybe it's that PhD students get to see a different side than undergrads/the general public. OTOH, you have to be a little mad to do this sort of stuff. (And I spend my days creating mathematical models of beef cattle systems, which requires one to be equal parts animal scientist/computer programmer/statistician, and that tends to not correlate very well with a high degree of mental stability)

And yeah, likeable yet scary. I think that's a Seanan McGuire thing in general. The Luidaeg, Istas, the dragon princesses, Dr. Abbey, Dr. Kimberly, - it's a trend I wholeheartedly adore!