"How Green This Land, How Blue This Sea" open thread.

[seanan_mcguire]

I have been asked to create an open thread for discussion of "How Green This Land, How Blue This Sea." As it has been out for a week now (gasp! so soon!), this seems reasonable to me. So here you go: here is an open thread.

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

Seriously. If anyone comments here at all, THERE WILL BE SPOILERS. So please don't read and then yell at me because you encountered spoilers. You were warned. (I will not reply to every comment; I call partial comment amnesty. But I may well join some of the discussion, or answer questions or whatnot.) I will be DELETING all comments containing spoilers which have been left on other posts. No one gets to spoil people here without a label.

You can also start a discussion at my website forums, with less need to be concerned that I will see everything you say! In case you wanted, you know, discussion free of authorial influence, since I always wind up getting involved in these things.

Have fun, and try not to bleed on the carpet.

Comments

[smoooom.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to cheer when I saw the happy Kangaroos hoping around deep into the enclosure. All I could think was, so why not humans? If George and Shawn have kids they will be immune right? How awesome is that.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

They might, they might not. Remember that Georgia no longer has a reservoir condition (and some reservoir conditions, specifically those linked to the ovaries/testicles, are actively fatal to offspring). So we shall see.

[ironed_orchid]

ZOMBIE KANGAROOS STOLE MY BABY!!!

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

YES THEY DID.

[shauna hoogland (from livejournal.com)]

As a born and bred Radelaidean I got so excited as I thought I was about to see little old Adelaide post zombie apocalypse, something I can honestly say I never thought to see in any form if media ever! So I must admit to being a leetle disappointed when I realised we were pretty much skipping past Adelaide and going straight to the fence. I got over this pretty quickly once we got to the mob of zombie Roos!

Loved everything about this story, it was entertaining, and unique and it was great to spend some more time with Mahir.

Some of the comments made by the Aussie characters about people coming to Australia resonated quite uncomfortably with me considering our current humanitarian issues with refugees and so called "boat people." Obviously a zombie apocalypse could shake the rights and wrongs of this issue up quite a bit, but it still felt quite uncomfortable hearing the "good" characters baldly stating that they didn't want any more people to come to Australia. I'd be interested to know if this was a purposeful choice in the writing or something I'm bringing to my reading of the story!

You gotta love it when you get bonus social justice commentary along with your zombie wombat.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Sorry we skipped Adelaide so much! Had to get to the fence eventually (and I really piddled about a lot longer on the plane and at the house than I'd expected).

It was an intentional inversion, yeah, and I'm sorry if that didn't come through. I wanted to sort of point out, a bit, that we favor people who can buy their way in over people who really need to be there, socially, and that this would change if money became less important than security and freedom. I also just really wanted to present a non-American, non-European view of the zombie uprising. I do hope I managed.

[umadoshi.livejournal.com]

The whole novella was great, and I love how much fun you clearly had with the zombie kangaroos! You have such a particular knack for conveying sheer geeky delight in things without it taking me out of the story in the slightest. ^_^

Because Georgia is forever-and-always my favorite, I especially loved everything Mahir said about her, which I'd been basically dying for ever since you mentioned on Twitter that he'd be talking about her. There were tears and glee in equal measure. If that's the last we ever get of anyone talking about her in canon, then it's a good way to end.

I won't say my favorite thing he said about her was the story about talking her out of writing an in-depth series on energy drinks, but I laughed and laughed. Oh, Georgia. I love how aware he is of her weaknesses and how much he loves her anyway. He's the best kind of friend.

(IIRC, he never refers to her and Shaun as siblings at all when he's talking or thinking about them? Is it safe to think that's deliberate on his part?)

And just, oh, Mahir. It was lovely to spend so much time in his head, where he's just as dry-witted and delightful as always. Of course he has staff who think chloroforming and kidnapping him is the right thing to do! And all of the new characters were great, with Olivia being especially awesome.

If I'm not careful I'll write a really epic comment, though, so: it was so good to get back into that 'verse, even briefly. Thank you. ^_^

(ZOMBIE KANGAROOS.)

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Mahir's wordings are very intentionally precise. He was always a little bothered by the sibling act, because they seemed too close for that. He figured out what they'd really been to each other shortly after Georgia died, and began very carefully editing his thinking, because he owed them the consideration of thinking of them as they truly were and had been, not as he'd assumed them to be.

Georgia is my favorite, too. But oh, I love Mahir.

[chinders.livejournal.com]

I am just going to squee about the totally nonchalant mention of the happy poly household. As always, I appreciate you putting various types of diversity in your work like it's no big deal. (Because it's not.)

Also, the biologist in me is fascinated by breastfeeding zombie kangaroos.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

The biologist in me had a lot of fun figuring the kangaroo ecology out.

[yarram.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed the story, although I will admit it is not suitable bedtime reading for me. /wry grin/

It's not entirely relevant to the story line, and the answer may possibly be spoilery for future stories, in which case HERE BE SPOILERS is an appropriate reply, but I found myself wondering what happened to the Aborigines living in the bush. Did some of them get end up staying behind the Fence?

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Yes, some of them did, and they're doing quite well.

[beccastareyes]

I liked that the story showed a place that wasn't America after a world-wide catastrophe, and that not everywhere in the world responded like middle-class Americans did*, and that it worked. It underscored the message of the trilogy nicely, that there is a difference between security to make you safe and security to remind you to be afraid.

I also like the hopeful message with the kangaroos adapting to Kellis-Amberlee, that due to marsupial biology and shorter generations (and being mostly left alone probably helped), they have a leg up, but that their future is possibly humanity's future -- where, yes, zombies are still A Thing, but is not a guaranteed group-killer. And the mixed attitudes towards wildlife versus human development and safety, which seem to echo modern concerns. But with zombies.

* Even in the trilogy, showing that the American poor and those that lived off the grid (intentionally or unintentionally) didn't have the same security culture that the protagonists grew up with (since, even with the Masons making a big deal of being a Normal Family, George and Shaun got used to certain precautions as 'normal' because they could afford security systems and disposable blood tests and so on) was nice.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad you liked it. :)

[geekhyena.livejournal.com]

I had been waiting eagerly for this ever since you announced it - and it was more wonderful than I could have imagined. The ecology was perfectly thought-out, seeing Mahir again - oh, Mahir, how I missed your wit and perspective on things! Also, seeing a poly triad in fiction meant so much to me - hearkening back to your earlier piece on representation, it is so rare to see poly relationships written in fiction as something that's good for all the participants and as a valid thing. So thank you for doing that. (and my girlfriend keeps quoting that line about mediation, much to my amusement and that of our boyfriend).

Also, re: the zombie wombats being a serious threat - I would bet money that somewhere, Ursula Vernon has read this and is laughing her ass off, with the occasional "I told you so!".

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome, and I'm really glad you liked it. :)

[kohi-no-tora.livejournal.com]

I must say that I have been waiting for this since reading the original trilogy. And I was sold the moment I read the line 'but they forgot that Australia was inhabited by Australians' (there may have been some cackling).

Though I do have some questions that remain unanswered.

1) What meat was in those sausages that Mahir had? Mostly because I was pondering how The Rising would have affected the popularity of emu farming.

2) Speaking as one from more northerly latitudes, how has the rising affected coastal Australia's beach culture?

3) And while it was interesting to see how KA interacted with marsupials compared to placental mammals, that leads to the inevitable next question. What about the monotremes? While platypi and echidnas would never get over the amplification threshold for size reasons (I think), the fact remains that they're the most extreme outliers on the mammal family tree. Egg layers, use the W and Z sex chromosomes like birds and lizards (and have 10 of them!) ets.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

1) Emu.

2) Surprisingly little, as sharks don't get KA.

3) Good question! Dun dun DUN dun.

[mayir.livejournal.com]

One thing that left me questioning is how the mystery of who was shooting the kangaroos was left open-ended. Suggestion of future plot to come?

[jenfullmoon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it did seem odd that anyone from After The End Times would LEAVE any kind of mystery unsolved. Maybe his visa ran out too late? Or are we just to assume the zombie roo napping people did it?

[jammiesest.livejournal.com]

More Mahir always makes me happy, and I loved, loved, loved what he had to say about Georgia to Olivia & Jack. Okay, I loved, loved, loved the whole novella. :D

Some points that remain with me, days after my first read are:

Revenge of the Flight Attendants--they're armed, you're not, suck it up and behave.
Zombie wombats--nooooo, not cute fuzzy wombats!
Joeys! Mahir succumbing to the cute!
ZOMBIE ROOS STOLE MAH BAYBEEEEE!
A perspective from outside the US/Northern Europe world.
And the fact that the roo-shooter remains unknown--life doesn't always have tidy endings.

Thank you again for the wonderful story, Seanan.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome.

[deire.livejournal.com]

I loved Mahir so much more after this story!

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Yay!

[thiefofcamorr.livejournal.com]

Have to admit, was proud to be Australian, reading it.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I am very, very glad.

[dimestore-romeo.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed reading this one and was really pleased with how long and juicy it was! It also tickled my curiosity about how aborigine communities behind the fence are doing, and how they cope with the zombies.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Yay!

[boxlawyer.livejournal.com]

I still don't know what to think about the "zombie kangaroos stole my son" business. It resonated way too closely to what actually happened with Lindy and Michael Chamberlain, right down to the media (being Mahir) treating what they had to say as being hysterical or just downright delusional that anyone would believe it. Was I the only one who left the story squirming at Mahir's thoughts in relation to that? Were we meant to think that about Mahir?

It was unfortunate because I was really enjoying the novella until then, and the fact that the Chamberlains' story is added just to give the story a bit of colour made me squirm a bit.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I am so very sorry. I actually know about what happened with the Chamberlains beyond just "it was a punchline, ha ha," and the way they were treated by the news breaks my heart. That wasn't what I was trying to invoke at all—it was meant to be a comment on how some people will always choose fear, and now that some people are pointing out the connection, I just sort of want to knock my head against things.

What happened to the Chamberlains was a tragedy and a crime. I'm glad it was finally proven that yes, their child was taken by a wild animal, if only for the fact that it could grant them some piece of mind, even if it doesn't take back the jokes. I didn't mean to invoke that, and I'm really, truly sorry that I did.

[lianneb.livejournal.com]

As I said before, I would love to see the story of the woman they named the airfield after, and the other heroes of the Australian rising.

But after zombie kangaroos, I'm now wondering about Africa. India is abandoned by the living, but what about Africa? Zombie lions, elephants, giraffes, hyenas, water buffalo...

Okay, now I am picturing sub-Saharan Africa as equally abandoned, and patrolling guards protecting northern Africa.

You know, I once had a nightmare about a zombie uprising that involved a transport ship with an elephant on board that became a zombie elephant. That... was scary.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

You know, I don't think I'd dare do Africa? I mean, I have some really solid ideas about what things are like there, but I don't want to be Yet Another White Western Author over-simplifying an entire continent.

[antinomic.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed it very much. One smartass question ran through my mind, would vegetarian zombies prefer a tofu burger? Must be tough to be a zombie kangaroo, questing for tofu, always disappointed.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Since there are no vegetarian zombies, nope. :)

[charles ellis (from livejournal.com)]

Poly family, Yay!

It was good to see zombie animals featured in greater depth, although it makes me rethink how defensible my home would be during the Rising. Human-type zombies I could probably keep out, but I live in deer and coyote country, and even get the occasional fox. I share fence with two cattle ranches. And about four miles away there is an exotic wildlife ranch (tourist type, not meat or hunting) that includes, among other things, giraffes.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you're in trouble.

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

This whole novella was utterly delicious. More Mahir! post-Rising international air travel! Poly family! Crotchety pilot wearing sunglasses reminding Mahir of Georgia! And oh, all of the ways in which Australia has responded differently to the Rising than America did. You're brilliant at all of the little details which taken together shape a whole world.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Yay!

[aedifica]

Did I imagine a bit of Mirabile homage, or was it really there? (I grinned so hard when I noticed that (or thought I noticed it).)

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

It was really there. :)

[kate andrews hoult (from livejournal.com)]

I'm a Newfoundlander (now living on 'the mainland'), and have often marvelled, in buffeting winds on jagged cliff-edges over the roiling Atlantic, at the fierce beauty of my hard and breathtaking homeland. Thanks for putting that feeling into words.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I am so glad it worked.