The nopetopus rides again.

[seanan_mcguire]

The current SFWA shouting match about sexism and harassment and "OH MY GOD I AM BEING OPPRESSED BY FEMINISTS" is leading to a lot of the very predictable "Help help bad people are trying to take away my freedom of speech."

Here's the thing: No one involved in this fight is saying "you should never use your freedom of speech." Not to anyone, not at all. We are, after all, not the government. What we are saying is "you didn't buy the 'freedom from consequences' expansion pack." And really, that's what's being requested here: not freedom of speech, but freedom from the consequences of speaking.

"Sure, I called another professional in my field sub-human because I dislike their race/religion/choice of ice cream flavors! But I'm allowed! I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH."

"Sure, I told that fatso urban fantasy author to lose some weight and brush her hair so that we could take her seriously as a writer! But I'm allowed! I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH."

"Sure, I misgendered another author for funsies, refusing to acknowledge the reality of their existence! But I'm allowed! I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH."

Nope.

Nope.

THE NOPETOPUS RIDES AGAIN.

If someone chooses to say sexist, racist, bigoted shit, that's on them: that’s theirs to deal with. I will not restrict their ability to say it. But there will be consequences. Maybe consequences as minor as me not wanting to have a conversation with them; maybe consequences as major as an editor choosing not to work with them, or an agent declining to sign them, as they would be bad for the agency’s image (and hence bottom line).

These "rabid weasels" (term coined by Mary Robinette Kowal, the voice of Toby and a glorious voice of reason) are HARMING SFWA AS A PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION. Not just by taking time and energy away from writing—which, gods know, is a thing we all need to be doing more of—but by making us look, in public, like this is what all believe. They’re very loud, those weasels, and while they have the right to say whatever they want, we’re the ones choosing to allow them to do it inside our house.

I use my freedom of speech: I use it to say "that ain't cool" about a lot of things. For my trouble I am called a bitch, a whore, a slut, a cunt, a stupid cow, a pig, too dumb to rape, and a lot of other things. Those are the consequences of my speech. And the consequences of those words are simple:

I refuse to stop pointing out the people who use them.

Comments

[deakat]

Keep on rockin'. (I know that you will.) <3

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Watch me rock!

Sidebar comment

[dewline.livejournal.com]

I read the word "Nopetopus" and instinctively suspect that there's a character design by Berke Breathed lurking somewhere in the wider world matched to that word. Or that there ought to be.

More on the Main Point shortly, but it won't be an argumentative comment...

[sillylilly-bird.livejournal.com]

Ooh, hadn't thought Berke, my thought was Ursula V :D

To the main point:

[dewline.livejournal.com]

Some will always view consequences of their speech as "oppression". Which, as you've noted, isn't always so. And muddies the waters for those occasions when it starts to look like real oppression has begun making its own rounds. One tends to dislike the resulting confusion.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Sad but very true.

[ducktape74.livejournal.com]

Woo!

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

<3

[mbarr.livejournal.com]

Keep on pointing :)

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Shall do.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

I use my freedom of speech: I use it to say "that ain't cool" about a lot of things. For my trouble I am called a bitch, a whore, a slut, a cunt, a stupid cow, a pig, too dumb to rape, and a lot of other things.

All together, now: One...Two...Three...CLASSY!!!

It's hard to imagine anyone who cares enough to read what you have to say being that vicious, but they are. Always remember, there are more of us who respect and admire you than there are of them. Many more.

If a completely unrelated thought to cheer you up might be useful...consider that this summer makes 28 years since It was first published, and since the year of the protagonists' second battle with Pennywise. Do you suppose they really defeated It fully and finally? Or is Derry due for some more nasty right about now? Maybe the bullies who bother you should go there...

Cue the Beverly Hillbillies...

Come listen to a story 'bout a boy named Bill
Who made a paper boat one day when he was ill
His little brother lost it down a storm drain in the ground
When up from the sewer came a bubblin' clown!
(It, that is...Pennywise...Bob Gray...)

Well, the next thing you know, Bill's brother lost an arm
And children in the neighborhood were coming into harm
Bill had to stop the monster, whatever it might be
With Richie, Eddie, Stan and Ben and Mike and Beverly!
(Marsh, that is...like the one down in The Barrens...)

[laurenthemself]

The noise I made when I read that was an ungodsly snort of amusement.

[also-huey.livejournal.com]

I spent ten years in the military, and as a consequence of that, I swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, on several occasions. And somewhere around the second or third oath-swearing, it occurred to me that maybe I ought to read the damn thing. So I did.

Ergo, I can tell you this: nowhere in the Constitution does it guarantee the freedom to not be told that you are an epic dickbag, simply because you have chosen to exercise your freedom of speech to BE an epic dickbag. And while I will defend to the death your right to BE an epic dickbag, I may also point out that, y'know, I've found that life is really much nicer when you're NOT an epic dickbag. And definitely consider, as Mary Robinette Kowal points out, shutting the fuck up.

[tylik.livejournal.com]

While I am fairly certain the founding fathers were not inclined towards the term "epic dickbag" it does not take more than a superficial familiarity with their interactions to deduce that they were familiar with the concept ;-)

[bzarcher.livejournal.com]

Beat their asses with the crowbar of overdue re-education.

Also, I realize that to an extent communications within the SFWA need to stay within the SFWA, but if these guys (and I think I'm pretty safe assuming it's 'guys', sadly), continue this behavior, maybe it's time to start naming names?

I don't want to buy a book, or an anthology, and find out after the fact that I'm putting money into the pockets of someone who is hurting my friends. And maybe if enough of us do the same thing, they'll feel THAT, even if they still can't figure out that it's no longer 1955.

[avram]

Some stuff has been made public. (Assuming that site hasn’t been taken down by DMCA notices by the time you see it. If it has, maybe google for specfriction screencap.)

[droewyn.livejournal.com]

[pernwebgoddess.livejournal.com]

*right click*

*save as*

[thoughtsdriftby.livejournal.com]

Opinions stated as such in an open forum where people are free to listen or not at their choosing may be regarded as free speech, however bad.

Personal attacks, slander, harassment, and the forcing of their vile refuse on people is not free speech. Just a deluded criminal misusing yet another verbal tool to bludgeon those about them, robbing others of what they can.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Ayup.

[ironed_orchid]

Consequences. They are what happens when you grow up.

[sylviamcivers.livejournal.com]

Cue Peter Pan's crowd - I don't wanna grow up, I might have to behave like a grown-up!

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

For some reason, 9 times out of 10, if I see someone going on about freedom of speech... exactly as you say, what they are actually wanting is freedom from consequences. It does not work that way, anywhere in the world.

I have to say, if nothing else from this, I am coming up with an amazingly large list of Authors I Never Want To Buy Ever (and, conversely, Authors I Will Buy ALL THE THINGS From, and quite a few Authors I Have Never Heard Of But Will Be Buying ASAP). I don't expect that myself alone will make a difference there, but I know a lot of people who are paying attention to all of this that are making the same kinds of decisions.

[wendyzski.livejournal.com]

That was my exact comment - "Damn, my list of authors who will never ever get a dime from me" is getting longer"

[gothrockrulz.livejournal.com]

What we are saying is "you didn't buy the 'freedom from consequences' expansion pack."

Thank you. A thousand times, thank you.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

<3

[kaberett.livejournal.com]

Re making the SFWA look bad - yes. (I mean, you know this, but here is a concrete example in case it's helpful!)

The SFWA is one of the charities that stands to receive funds from the current Humble eBook Bundle. I know a non-trivial number of people who are not buying, or who are deliberately excluding the SFWA from their charitable contribution, as a result of the org's current behaviour.

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

Why, yes. Yes, indeed. I can say the same. On the one hand, I do support the good things SFWA has done, like the fund for medical expenses. On the other hand, for those of us who aren't SFWA members, there's limited ways to protest that get heard. I would be very curious, as I believe SFWA was one of the charities for the previous Humble Ebook Bundle, as to whether there is a noticeable decrease in what they receive. Not getting a cent from me.

[vincentursus.livejournal.com]

Reading the subject line to this post I was immediately reminded of the dream you previously posted about featuring the use of an air-breathing giant squid for transportation.

Regarding the content, the quotation that comes to mind is:
"There is but one human right: the right to do whatever you damn well please. It is accompanied by the one human responsibility: to accept the consequences of your actions."

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Basically, yes.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

It always amuses me the degree to which these types are all about *their8 'freedom of speech' but scream blue murder when someone else -- particularly if that someone is a person of colour, QUILTBAG or female -- speaks back to them. They seem to think that freedom of speech only goes one way. As far as I know, they're wrong about that.
Over here, we have a legal category called 'hate speech': some of these characters (and especially Mr Day) would find themselves in very hot legal water if they were in the UK.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I do appreciate the existence of that legal category.

[tapati.livejournal.com]

" 'freedom from consequences' expansion pack." <----- LOVE THIS

Seriously though, I have never seen a bunch of whiners quite like guys called on their sexist, racist, ____ist slurs and jokes. Heaven help them if something bad actually does happen in their lives if they can't handle being called out on their words.

[sylviamcivers.livejournal.com]

But 'being called on their words' IS something big - it means that their egos can't take up the whole building, they have to set aside some rooms for OTHER people's egos. It is quite possible, do you realize, that other people might someday want an entire building for non-white-male egos, and this...

This is a catastrophe beyond any physical occurrence in the entire universe.

[jmb (from livejournal.com)]

The Nopetopus is here!

http://www.reactiongifs.com/nope-nope-nope-octopus/

(And yes, this is a real, unphotoshopped critter, from the South Pacific. It's pretending to be an inedible, sprouting coconut shell, drifting inedibly along the bottom of the sea...)

[aussiebeck.livejournal.com]

I agree with you. It's like freedom of speech is only allowed with socially acceptable speech. I think peoples idea of "freedom of speech" is hypocritical. I'll quite happily say that I believe in honesty. So say it even if I don't like it I wont repress some ones views just because I don't like it. The people calling you those names clearly aren't able to hear an honest opinion.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I do wish people wouldn't hold to such hateful positions, because I can't imagine it makes them happy people. But if it does, I'm not stopping them.

[aliciaaudrey.livejournal.com]

I already gave my freedom of speech isn't freedom from having people yell at you because you just proclaimed something large chunks of society find offensive and oppressive in response to someone elses comment, so I won't do it again (I know everybody is sad that there is not a repeat of Alicia Gives a Law 101 Lecture). But I am proud of you for keeping up the pressure, because nine tenths of the reason people do this "waaaah you have no sense of humor and I have freedom of speech" nonsense is to try and shut you up because they know they just pooped on the carpet right in front of everyone and wish people would just pretend they didn't. Good show.

Also as others have said: "freedom from consequences expansion pack" is awesome on toast, and should immediately enter into legal jargon. I will attempt now to make it so.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[listicath.livejournal.com]

“Because half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern make the field ring with their importunate chink, whilst thousands of great cattle. . . chew the cud and are silent, pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field; that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little, shrivelled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome insects of the hour.”

Edmund Burke (British Statesman and Philosopher, 1729-1797)

[sylviamcivers.livejournal.com]

Lovely.

[l-o-lostshadows.livejournal.com]

*sigh* The "I have freedom of speech to say crap, but you don't have freedom of speech to point out my crap." mindset. Is there a remedial elementary school social studies class we can send them to?

No nopetopus, but I do have a whatopus.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

The nopetopus and the whatopus are friends.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

What boggles me is all the whining that the feminist cabal (always "those people" or "a small minority") are trying to steal SFWA from these yammering neanderthals.

I'm like, "that's a good thing for you, because the feminist cabal is what keeps SFWA from looking like a rabid band of malicious nincompoops." But hey, if they really, really want me to know that I shouldn't give these writers any money because I don't want to reward stupidity, I suppose I should oblige them.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

Rabid Feminist Cabal would be an awesome band name.

Come to think of it, so would Freedom From Consequences Expansion Pack.

[kengr]

Oh yes. I had way too many years as a BBS sysop having to "explain" freedom of speech to users.

I suspect these jerks may also be afraid that SWFA may get around to exercising its "Freedom of the press" to tell them that they can't use the organization's resources to spread that sort of speech.

That was another concept that the BBS users tended to not get. That freedom of speech *doesn't* include the right to use somebody else's "press" to spread your ideas. That comes under freedom of the press, and pretty much amounts to "the owner gets to say what does and doesn't get printed".

In this case SFWA, by *not* shutting these guys down is de facto making the statement that the organization doesn't object to what they are saying. Which is very much not good for SWFA.

Whoever is in charge probably thinks that exercising editorial control (freedom of the press) would be violating the "freedom of speech" of the jerks. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

If I say "you can't say that on my site" , then you are stuck. My site, my rules. You are completely free to try to find some other site that will let you say it.

And if nobody wants to, then you can start your *own* site.

Again, freedom of speech doesn't include the right to use other people's resources to spread your ideas. Nor does it include any right to make people listen. Expecting them to *agree* with you? It is to laugh.

And yes, people *do* get to talk back to you. Or about you. Unless it rises to the standard of libel or slander, you get to live with their responses as part of the *price* of freedom of speech. Because they get it too.

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

"Oh yes. I had way too many years as a BBS sysop having to "explain" freedom of speech to users."

Oh good lord and lady. I've spent the last ten years as a moderator or admin on various different internet fora. On one site, I actually put into the rules something to the effect of: "You are under the mistaken impression that this is a democracy. It is not. It is a benevolent dictatorship."

And yes, something that continually comes up in one that I currently co-admin, which is a very well-known romance writer's community and resource, is that we have to keep in mind what sort of message we want to be sending. And, if we don't respond to people who are being racist/sexist/etc and shut them down, we are then sending the message that that sort of thing is okay in our community, which it is not.

It would seem to me that a professional organization would have all the more reason to not want *ists to be representing them, but *sigh*

[arcaneblades.livejournal.com]

Thank you for these actions! I am repeatedly pleased by the kinds of things you're saying, and you have my support. Not that You need these things, just that I wanted you to know you have them.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Thank you. :)