What do Disney princesses and urban fantasy girls have in common?

[seanan_mcguire]

I think everyone is familiar with the Disney princess by now: a collection of boiled sugar girls in sparkly dresses and high heels who happen to resemble the spirited, interesting heroines of the movies we love, all of them posed to perfection in big groups of rainbow loveliness. They stare soullessly from bookstore walls and supermarket shelves, hawking everything from dress-up shoes to fruit snacks. The stories they come from may be exciting, or interesting, or educational, but the Disney princess shows none of those traits when she's on-duty. She's there to be a display, and that's all she's going to be.

(As a total aside, if you want to see these girls when they're off-duty, and hence more fun, check out Amy Mebberson's Tumblr for her Pocket Princesses. They're awesome, and they have the spunk, spirit, and personality that the official Princesses sadly often lack.)

It wasn't until I read the book Cinderella Ate My Daughter that I noticed the creepiest thing about the Disney princesses: they never look at each other. Get six of them in a group, and they will all strike independent poses, they will all gaze at independent points off in the distance. They never make eye contact. They never acknowledge each other in any way. Why?

Because if you're going to be the fairest in the land, you can't ever admit that anyone of comparable fairness even exists. To be the prettiest princess, you must also be the only princess. So all you other princesses can just step off; this is my spotlight.

Creepy.

As most of you probably know, I read a lot of urban fantasy, geared both at adults and the YA market. I enjoy it. It makes me happy. It features, as a genre, a lot of strong female characters doing strong female things. Yes, it has its flaws, because all genres have flaws, but on the whole, it's probably my favorite genre right now.

Only. I noticed a thing. This is a thing that I am not immune to. Nor is it a universal thing (so making long lists of exceptions to this thing is not necessarily helpful, although discussion of specific examples is, as always, awesome). But it's a thing I think we should be thinking about, both as creators and consumers. And it's this:

Urban fantasy heroines have a lot in common with Disney princesses.

The standards for "fairest of them all" are different when your kingdom is a city and your ballgown is a pair of leather pants. You need to be the best ass-kicker, the best snarker, the best crime-solver or magic-user, or whatever. But they're still high standards to live up to, and it's easier to do when there's no one else in your sandbox. If no one else is kicking ass in leather pants, you don't have to try as hard to be the best. Consequentially, we keep seeing urban fantasy heroines with no peers. No other women who kick ass. They might have sidekicks, or even other strong female characters in supporting roles, but it feels like a lot of them...well. Like a lot of them just don't have any friends.

In my daily life, I have a lot of friends who are, well, fairer than me in some ways. Vixy is an amazing lead vocalist. Pretty sure if we were auditioning against each other, she'd get the part. Also, cartoon birdies braid her hair. Cat and Bear and I write very different books, but we're all award-winners and best-sellers and Cat raises chickens and Bear climbs mountains, neither of which I do. Kate is witty and snarky and often faster on her feet than I am, as well as being a thousand times more organized. Meg is a natural redhead who makes her own clothes and bounces back after flying over the handlebars of her bike...and these are only a few of the amazing, incredible, bad-ass women who share my life.

It can be easy, as an author, to smooth and sand the story until all the unnecessary characters are gone, and I can see where that might mean you have to lose a few of the members of the Breakfast Club. At the same time, if that process leaves six male characters and one female, and only one of those male characters is Prince Charming, why are the other five all dudes? Can't we balance things a little? For me, female characters are more believable when they have friends. When there are other women around to talk to, trade tips on wearing leather pants without chafing with, and generally enjoy.

And if someone says that a story containing more than three characters "only needed" one woman, I sort of have issues with that. (In my perfect world, no one would say that about two or three character stories, either. But I'm willing to grant that some stories need two males and one female, if you'll grant that the opposite is also true.) Even Magic Mike, a movie about male strippers, managed to have two female characters with distinct and interesting, if brief, speaking roles.

I don't like that the Disney princesses have been frozen in place, never making eye contact with the only people who could really be their peers and understand the trials of the tiara. I'd hate it for that to happen to our urban fantasy girls, too.

Comments

[jslinder.livejournal.com]

The potential for a cross-over story/anthology/novella here is kind of impressive. I picture a bunch of current Urban Fantasy heroines all sitting around a bar tossing off stories that fit the theme. (Full caveat, Trek lit tried something similar with it's Captain's Table line of books - the results of which were.. mixed...)

The kickstarter campaign for this would be EPIC.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

That a) could be incredibly fun, and b) would REQUIRE an Amy Mebberson cover with the various characters as Disney Princesses.

[stephani673.livejournal.com]

Cinderella Ate My Daughter is an amazing book. We read it last summer for my book club. :)

I've actually been thinking about this quite a lot lately. Growing up in the 70s and 80s, there were few ensembles in books and media sources that included multiple and diverse female characters. More than two women in a group of men and it became a different story. As though the presence of multiple women suddenly turned a movie into a chick flick.

Perhaps this laid some of the groundwork for the next generation? When I was 7, my best friend watched 'Grease' and insisted we play it on the playground. Not knowing the characters or the plot, I went along with it and agreed to be Frenchie. When you're playing with your childhood friends, do you want to be the beautiful heroine or do you want to be the wacky sidekick? If I'd known then what I know now, I would have insisted on being Rizzo.

(Personally, I was the happiest when our 3rd grade Columbus Day play extended on to the playground and I got to be Queen Isabella and boss everyone around.)

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

That book made me think ALL THE THINGS. I want it to be required reading, whether you have a daughter or not. It's the best discussion I've seen of the commercialization of childhood.

[reedrover]

Thanks for the food for thought, and well-timed, too. I just read an e-ARC for an upcoming urban fantasy release by R.L.Naquin, and I'm happy to report that our heroine has a gal-pal who is better at some things than she is, and worse at others, with whom she runs a business. They have a relationship of equals where strengths balance weaknesses. And our heroine goes out for coffee with one lady, shares emotions with a few others, and generally has other women come through the book who are not there to only provide a magic plot twist or a quick comparison of how our heroine is The Fairest. (... And as a total aside - there is a hightop-wearing closet monster named Maurice who is a fabulous cook - he makes the best muffins.)

[scarybaldguy.livejournal.com]

And our heroine goes out for coffee with one lady, shares emotions with a few others, and generally has other women come through the book who are not there to only provide a magic plot twist or a quick comparison of how our heroine is The Fairest.

Thinking about it, this may be why I love Verity so much. Yes, she kicks much ass on her own, but she has an entire crew backing her up. Same with Toby.

[lunalelle.livejournal.com]

*L*

I'm laughing because I'm writing a story that centers around one person, but she's hardly the uber-awesomest of her little group, and as the series goes on (at least as I plan it), she loves other people playing in her sandbox. What can I say, the girl is personable and since she's far from the most powerful, she has to depend on other people.

It does make managing the cast effing difficult, but my protag is far more sociable than I am, so it's actually kind of fun to balance her little group.

For the princesses, I think part of it is that they're all from different stories and different times, so maybe they really don't see each other, because then we'd have a dimensional paradox and chaos would ensue. :)

But hard to say the same for the urban fantasy heroes and heroines, and maybe Avengers addressed that in its own way: Bringing a bunch of Type As into one group is damn hard, and that's why none of them are looking at each other in the poster.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Except that the Princesses do appear in media and stories together, usually under the veil of "Disney Princess Storytime," and in those instances, they supposedly interact, sort of in a Disneyland-esque "outside of time" setting. And even there, they never look at each other. I think that's a good guideline/justification, but it doesn't change the imagery we present, and hence the message it conveys.

I don't want equality, or even necessarily friends. Just multiple girls. Much as I loved The Avengers, their omission of any female heroes beyond Black Widow was where that movie let me down.

[dragonsally.livejournal.com]

I think this is the reason why I love Kim Harrison's Hollows series - two kick-ass gals sharing a house, amongst other things.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Fully.

[groblek.livejournal.com]

I'd never noticed that before, either about the princesses or urban fantasy heroines, but you make a very good point. I completely agree with you that we should see the heroine with her friends. That's one of the things I like about Jim Hines' princess books, that they're friends and a team. Also, thank you for introducing me to his books, since I picked them up after you mentioned him in an entry some while back.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome!

[taylweaver.livejournal.com]

Thanks for getting me thinking. This is definitely something to keep in mind when I'm writing - and something that hadn't really occurred to me until you mentioned it.

I feel like a lot of fantasy heroes/heroines are loners, regardless of gender. Maybe this is because so many authors got used to living that way when they were younger, or maybe it's for other reasons. But you've helped me to realize that it's important to have stories where the main character (again, regardless of gender) has friends, both to fight with and to decompress with when the fighting is done.

[lunalelle.livejournal.com]

That loner thing is a good point, and the tendency of a lot of writer-types to be loners themselves and thus writing what they know. Also, the Loner tends to be romanticized. You read more about the schizoid personality hero than you do the avoidant personality hero.

I know that I have tended to write loners in the past, but over the last few years I've noticed my protags starting to get more social. Mayhap because I'm more social these days?

[alicetheowl.livejournal.com]

That you notice and point out these things is one of the things I love about you. I love that your characters aren't the Exceptional Female, embodied. I love that you populate your books with all kinds of awesome people who show that there are so many different ways of being strong.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

<3

[batyatoon]

This is something I never noticed until someone introduced me to the concept of the Bechdel Test.

Astonishingly few Disney princesses pass that test, and of those that do, a lot of them pass it only by dint of a conversation with the villainess.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

There are also very, very few Disney princesses allowed to have female friends anywhere in the picture. Tiana does, but it's almost for the sake of mocking Charlotte.

[tekalynn.livejournal.com]

I read an article about the development of the Disney princesses...uh, somewhere. IIRC, the Disney princesses do not make eye contact with each other when in a group portrait, because they are all supposed to be in separate universes. They can see YOU, they just can't see each other.

I'd love to know where I read that, so I could cite it properly.

[lunalelle.livejournal.com]

LOL, I wrote about the separate universe thing above. I think it's funny that it might actually be true, or at least true in that that's the way that the artists justify portraying them when they're in groups. I was just guessing.

[katiki7.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I just finished rewatching Stargate SG-1 and found out in some commentary somewhere that Amanda Tapping and Claudia Black (who played Colonel Carter and Vala) had to ask the writers to give their two characters the kind of friendship and camaraderie they routinely give male characters. The writers agreed to it, but only ever got around to a quick scene where Carter and Vala come back from a shopping trip, and then have wine together later on.

A study came out last year by the Centre for the Study of Women in Television and Film at San Diego State University that revealed only 15% of primetime TV writers are women. A whopping 85% are men. Consequently, a lot of female characters are written by men and for men, and end up being damsels in distress, sex objects, bitches, etc. Another interesting aspect of this (and I may have read this in another study, I forget if it's the same one) is that the female characters basically don't have a life outside of their interactions with the male characters. There's a scale someone created to measure these things, and one of the yardsticks is how often a female character interacts with another female character, rather than just the male protagonaists. In a lot of cases, it hardly ever happens. So I'm not surprised that female heroines often don't have friends.

[lunalelle.livejournal.com]

That would be the Bechdel Test. It's linked in a previous comment.

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

I can't sing blues like you do, baby. ;-)

<3

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Let's form a super-team and FIGHT PRINCESS CRIME.

[bookblather.livejournal.com]

...wait, wait, wait, Magic Mike has two ladies with distinct and interesting roles?

Dear all other filmmakers: you have no excuse.

Also, this is an excellent post and you should feel excellent.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Yup.

And thank you. :)

[tikiera.livejournal.com]

I wonder if my letting go of some series (still reading but only by library and only after they have been out for some time) is because of this.

Verity has Sarah, Kate Daniels has Andrea, Harrison's book has a duo, the J.D. Robb series has a multitude of women... these are the ones that I buy as soon as they come out or am in top of the line for library reserve for those books that are too expensive that month to kindle. And then I buy them when the kindle price comes down.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

That...would make a lot of sense.

[vixyish.livejournal.com]

Baby powder.

;)

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Oh, go talk to birds.

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

I actually wrote a post about this trend -- and also the trend of competent women having to screw up in order to give the male characters a moment in the spotlight. It prompted an interesting conversation, too. Should you (or others) be so interested: http://nonnycat.livejournal.com/480815.html

It is incredibly frustrating to me and part of why I am mostly reading YA these days. I've found YA fiction to have a greater prevalence of multiple female characters, that have relationships with each other that don't boil down to protagonist/villain, or whose heroine puts down the friend for being different than her (such as how Anita Blake puts down her supposed best friend for enjoying feminine things -- it is disturbing that a requirement for "strong female character" in urban fantasy seems to boil down to being "one of the boys").

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

That's a fabulous post. I think I'd seen it before, and if so, I apologize if it seemed like I was stealing your central point. I wasn't trying to, honestly: it was the Disney princesses that got to me.

And agreed. Being a "strong female character" shouldn't have to mean "man with breasts."

[kay-gmd.livejournal.com]

Wow there's some serious good discussion here, but it fails to ask the most important question... So, does this mean we get to see Toby in leather pants in the next book?

I'll just wander off into my little corner now...

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Not if she has any say in the matter.

[james garza (from livejournal.com)]

Interesting that Sunnydale was a big enough sandbox to have Whedon drop another slayer or two or a thousand in on Buffy. Not to mention Wiccans, a vengeance demon, etc.

This discussion brings to mind a scenario where multiple BKHs (Butt Kicking Heroines) start bumping into each other unexpectedly, get in each ohers ways, save each others lives, etc. and eventually start bringing extra coffee/ almond croissants / crossbow bolts on stakeout. You know, an urban fantasy buddy picture?

And then they form a punk rock band called "Fairest Of Them All". I kid.

I have a daughter so I'm curious to see how 'Cinderella Ate My Daughter' compares to my experience.

[taldragon.livejournal.com]

i would read that book.

[the-jackalope.livejournal.com]

I call it the lone female problem. And I've been noticing it for quite a while now and it's started to bother me enough that I've stopped reading a few series because of it. Having a female heroine with female friends is something I really look for in novels, because I have female friends, and I have a hard time relating to someone who doesn't.

Also important are random females in the workplace of said heroine. Sometimes you'll get the sidekick friend who's a girl, but when the heroine goes to work (whether it be at an office job or a non-office job) the people she most interacts with are all male and that bothers me a lot. Because then women aren't shown as competent in the workplace and the heroine becomes the special exception.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Oh, ABSOLUTELY.

If I find that I'm defaulting people in the workplace to one gender or the other without it having a real character reason (the clerk at the grocery store, not going to be a hugely central character, unless that's where my protagonist works), I switch them until I hit parity.

[thebluerose.livejournal.com]

You voice a complaint that has been simmering in the back of my head for a while, around the Urban princess being the hardest and baddest of them all, and how annoying that its. Nearly as annoying as them being the whinyest and most selfpitying of all but thats another discussion.

I read the first book in the Elemental Assasins book recently, and one of the things I liked about it was how the lead princess did have friends and colleagues who were equal to her, she had a mentor, his son, and two capable female colleagues who did stuff she wasn't capable of doing.

Add to that an urban princess who, while having some elemental skillz, also had trained and worked hard to get as good as she was at her chosen job. None of this 'magically awesome with no background or experience" rubbish.

One of the reasons I have enjoyed Robin McKinley's books, her heroines just get on with the job the best way they know how, and never wait to be saved, nor are they 'being' princesses, they are just doing what needs to be done.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Those are lovely books.

[djonn]

Indeed, this is one of the oddest things I noticed about Brave....

[pause, note carefully that the following should *NOT* constitute any sort of spoiler for those who haven't yet seen the film]

Not only does our heroine, Merida, have no peers....but she and her toddler brothers are apparently the only children in their entire clan. Or at least there are no other children anywhere in the foreground of the movie save for Our Heroine and her siblings.

The thing is, most of the "princess" films at least pause to explain why their protagonists are socially isolated. In Beauty & the Beast, we get a whole song about it, Aladdin sets up Jasmine's protective father, Mulan deliberately disguises herself, and so on. Brave skips this step entirely, which created -- at least for me -- a very peculiar atmosphere. Mind, there is a good deal to like about the movie, but any attempt to impose the least bit of logic on what passes for the plot is doomed to failure.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

It's definitely odd, agreed.

George R. R. Martin Reading

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

User kellis_amberlee referenced to your post from George R. R. Martin Reading (http://kellis-amberlee.livejournal.com/500047.html) saying: [...] post about Disney princesses and kick ass urban fantasy females who don't have any female friends [...]

[1trackmind.livejournal.com]

This is an incredibly awesome post. Thank you! I read a lot of urban fantasy so this is something I'll keep in mind.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[vincentursus.livejournal.com]

Admittedly, I tend to tune out most of the Disney Princess merchandising.

I was thinking about something related to this phenomenon earlier this morning actually.

It's not just about being the one unique perfect princess, it's also about being static. They had their fairy tale, they are now living happily ever after, end of story. Interaction with other princesses would be outside the story, and is the kind of thing that happens in good fan fiction rather than in official Disney properties.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

And yet it does happen in the official Disney properties, over and over again; the franchise itself is essentially a long, ill-considered fanfic. And it's frustrating to see them refusing to allow things to be open, because the message it sends is a terrible one.

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

I actually wrote a post about this trend -- and also the trend of competent women having to screw up in order to give the male characters a moment in the spotlight. It prompted an interesting conversation, too. Should you (or others) be so interested: http://nonnycat.livejournal.com/480815.html

It is incredibly frustrating to me and part of why I am mostly reading YA these days. I've found YA fiction to have a greater prevalence of multiple female characters, that have relationships with each other that don't boil down to protagonist/villain, or whose heroine puts down the friend for being different than her (such as how Anita Blake puts down her supposed best friend for enjoying feminine things -- it is disturbing that a requirement for "strong female character" in urban fantasy seems to boil down to being "one of the boys").

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Looks like we're getting duplicate comments, hon, but I didn't want to delete this one and possibly create issues with LJ letting you post here.