Pondering the princess.

[seanan_mcguire]

So I was talking to Cat, and we somehow got onto the topic of Candy Land (I think I'd been complaining about the infantalization of the third generation of My Little Ponies, who went from kicking Satan's ass to sharing fashion tips about butterflies). This triggered a rather impressive amount of ranting about the transformation of Queen Frostine from a blue-haired, strong female character* in a full-length gown to a blonde Barbie-girl figure skater. Oh, also? She's not a Queen anymore. She's a Princess.

This sort of gave me pause. Because, see, I got the new My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic gift set for Christmas (and I love it very, very much), and it included the current ruler of Ponyland, Princess Celestine. Now, Princess Celestine does all the things one associates with a ruler. She rules, for one thing. She also controls the magic of the day (her sister gets the magic of night, and since My Little Ponies are primarily diurnal, she's kinda pissy about that). She makes laws, passes judgments, and generally keeps things functional. Not easy! But she, and her sister, remain princesses. Meanwhile, back in the generation one Dream Castle, Queen Majesty is laughing her blue-spangled ass off.

(Interestingly enough, one of the unicorns in the new line, Rarity, looks almost exactly like Majesty. Only she's not even a princess. But I digress.)

Where have all the queens gone? Ozma was never Princess of Oz; she was always Empress. Alice didn't become a Princess of Wonderland; she became a genuine Queen. "Princess" was never a career aspiration, not like it is now. There were princesses, but they were almost always presented as being prissy and overly-concerned with their own appearance or dignity. The Princess Ponies freaked out when they got dirty, while most of the other Ponies just said "Whatever" and got back to work. That recurred throughout a lot of children's media. If you were a princess, you didn't do a damn thing. You let other people do it for you.

Most of the early Disney girls found their stories ending as soon as they became/were revealed as princesses. Sleeping Beauty liked living in the woods with her animal friends. Cinderella and Snow White both had lives before their princes came along. They weren't necessarily good lives, what with the homicidal mother figures and all, but they got to do things, beyond getting married and swanning off into an endless world of merchandising.

Now there are no queens. When Disney makes a sequel, it's almost always set either before the first film ended (as with the two Aladdin followups), or the now-married original princess is still a princess, even if the king and queen are never shown (Prince Eric is still credited as such in The Little Mermaid II, implying that Ariel remains a princess). The only confirmed crownings I can find are Kida of Atlantis, who is queen in her direct-to-DVD sequel, and Rapunzel, although they haven't had time to make a still-the-princess sequel to Tangled. Characters with no visible claim to a throne are turned into princesses constantly, like Barbie and Dora the Explorer will be happier now that they have to wear (mor) uncomfortable shoes. It's like the ultimate goal has become "all the bling, none of the legislating."

I don't get it. When did we decide we'd rather have prettiness and pearls than power? When did we decide that our little girls needed to be put in holding patterns, unable to take the throne of self-determination, but too elevated to play in the mud and get their hands dirty? I mean, I call myself a pretty pink princess. I don't think there's anything wrong with aspiring to princess-dom. But...it seems really strange to me that no one's looking past that to the throne, or encouraging it in little girls. Majesty and Frostine were quite happy as queens. I bet Celestine and her sister would be, too.

Just a thought.

(*Some people will say that you can't have a strong female character in a board game. But as someone who was a little girl and played Candy Land? I always saw Queen Frostine as being pretty much in charge. Remember, kids narrate games to themselves, and when Frostine was on the board, there was no question about who was the boss. The boss was the blue-haired lady who would kick your ass if you crossed her.)

Comments

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

Some Princesses aren't the fluffy kind. Princess Mononoke and Xena the Warrior Princess come to mind.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

True. But they're very much in the minority, and aren't marketed specifically at children.

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

My daughter, when she was about three, got into a phase where she was fascinated by princesses, primarily of the pretty-and-useless school. She asked me, when we were searching for interesting pictures on the computer (a game we still play sometimes, though now that she can read we search for articles too), to find her a picture of a real princess.

Oh boy, I thought. What an opportunity.

So I dug her up a picture of Princess Anne of England. Wearing pants, and on a horse, in the process of winning a major jumping competition. It was a very effective pointer to the concept that real princesses can and do actually get dirty, accomplish things, and have lives.

[jenk]

Not to mention competing in the 1976 Olympics ;) Did you see Princess Anne's daughter Zara Phillips is planning to compete in the 2012 Olympics? (Not sure if it's settled yet.)

It's also interesting that all this princess-mania is going on, while reportedly Anne - the one "born" princess of 16 countries - identifies with the princess in Roman Holiday. Also, reportedly Anne and her first husband declined an earldom for him, which is why her kids aren't titled.

[captaintwinings.livejournal.com]

I remember being very, very little and wanting to be just like Queen Frostine when I grew up. She had the traditional pretty princess appearance, but she was clearly a leader, not just someone who happened to wear pretty dresses and a crown. I also liked that Princess Lolly (I think she's just Lolly now) wore a dress no frillier than what I might wear to the playground. She was a princess, but that didn't stop her from traipsing through the lollipop forest with her friends, getting dirty and coming home with a tear in her skirt and a smudge on her nose.

Heh, I didn't think anyone but me put that much thought into the characters of Candy Land.

[spitphyre.livejournal.com]

I did too :) I remember playing the game last year with some kids I was watching and getting really confused.

[cluegirl.livejournal.com]

When did we decide we'd rather have prettiness and pearls than power? When did we decide that our little girls needed to be put in holding patterns, unable to take the throne of self-determination, but too elevated to play in the mud and get their hands dirty?

I don't know, but something in me is looking sidelong at Paris Hilton and Nichole Richie while I read this entire rant.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

...I can roll with that.

[spitphyre.livejournal.com]

This is an issue that really, really bothers me. Especially with all of the the stupid "Princess" crap my adult friends and acquaintances buy. Not from Disney but just as useless and even more stupid.

I'd rather be a Queen or a Goddess. thank you. Not spoiled, not lazy, but someone people have to answer to.

[fayanora.livejournal.com]

I've always been fascinated by dark sorceresses, myself. Not necessarily evil, but they don't take shit from anyone and they live by their own rules. So naturally my favorite fantasy character in my writing is a dark sorceress. And, in my intense hatred for stereotypes and labels, Lyria Spellspinner defies easy categorization. She's fiercely loyal to, and protective of, her family, and wary of outsiders, but can make friends easily when she tries to. She seeks to become a Goddess, and she can be terrifying at times, but she is usually an ethical person.

I do my damnedest to make her True Neutral. And while the current setting resembles renaissance Europe with a magic-based industrial revolution occurring, Lyria herself is from a land and people very different, a land with similarities to Africa. (Pre-european conquest Africa, that is.) I am very proud of this character. I've been play-acting dark sorceresses ever since I was knee high to a grasshopper, so it totally made sense.

What I love the most about the character is, she writes herself. One day, I was thinking back on this old fantasy storyverse I had. I had only the vaguest memory of a dark sorceress character I'd had in my "playing pretend" version of that 'verse (it's a very old storyverse), and there she popped up in my mind, almost complete, and completely unapologetic for any of it, which is so awesome. I just had to fill in some details, start going through her history. And she's got this nice air of mystery. She won't let me reveal, in the stories, more than hints of certain things that I already know. She is probably the most cooperative character I've ever had, in the sense that she looks right at me and says, "Alright, forget this rubbish about you being in charge. *I* am in charge. You're just the scribe." I love it!

[beckyh2112.livejournal.com]

Whenever discussions of Candyland come up, I like to share this art.

The idea of people removing the queens and empresses disturbs me. Yes, princess is nice and all, but why aren't we allowed to have women ruling in their own right in popular, kid-aimed fiction? It's unsettling.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

That.

Is.

AWESOME.

[kshandra]

...Ozma was never an Empress, was she? The book wouldn't be The Lost Princess of Oz if she had been....

[archangelbeth]

Hm. Wiki says, 'Many subsequent writers would refer to her as "Queen Ozma" in corroboration of her station as the highest ruler of the land, though Baum himself never gave her that title, other than tentatively at the end of The Marvelous Land of Oz.' Wiki also says, on another page, "Dorothy is officially made a Princess of Oz" (in The Lost Princess of Oz).

On the other hand, as I recall, Ozma was pretty definitely ruling in most of the Baum books (even if she did have a lot of her attitude stifled when she got un-boy-ified), and Dorothy was rampaging around Oz a fair amount. So it certainly is a version of "Princess" where it actually meant, well, doing stuff. (Non-Baum books don't exist in my universe. LA-LA-LA-LA-I-CAN'T-REEEEAD-YOU!)

Princess Jasmine, in the Aladdin TV series and the third of the OAVs, got some decent kick-butt abilities, too, after the movie (which only hinted at an innate, unnurtured cleverness and style). I recall at least two flying boot-to-the-heads when she got her temper riled. (Ariel, in The Little Mermaid II, was also at least doing something, and I forgive that ambitious-but-flawed OAV much for the "old married couple" smooching enthusiastically in the celebration scene.)

But a lot of the others.... Ehhhhhhhhh. O:/ Gimme Mulan. (Savior of China! Or something like that. Not a princess nor a queen, but a decent accomplishment, I'd say...)

[tsgeisel.livejournal.com]

When did we decide we'd rather have prettiness and pearls than power?

It's easy to blame television for this, so I will, but I can also blame People Magazine and the internet in general. Princesses have no real responsibilities, so they get to go out and party and have fun, which gets reported by the media, and publicized out of proportion to the importance of the event. The information generation doesn't want to read about foreign policy meetings - it wants to read about who's dating whom. Additionally, Princesses tend to be younger than Queens, so the younger folks identify with them more.

Also, there are only a limited number of Queens, but any number of Princesses. So it's easier to imagine yourself as one.

I ramble a bit, but I think you see what I'm getting at.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I do see what you're getting at.

Also, your icon creeps me right the fuck out.

[cupcakery.livejournal.com]

The only recent queen I can come to think of is Elizabeth Swann in the last Pirates of the Caribbean film. Then again, she's not really the Pirate Queen, she's the Pirate King.

I think the princess-ing is a result of the prolonged adolescence social situation, wherein it has someone with the powers of a queen but none of the responsibility.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I can agree with this.

[aliciaaudrey.livejournal.com]

I find this very similar to the "I want to be a BRIDE" weird daydream girls have. Which I never got, frankly. Weddings are a big pain in the ass with a big pain in the ass lead up. Somebody will get drunk. Somebody will say something insulting to somebody on the other side of the family who can't take a joke. Mine nearly erupted into a Yankees-Red Sox brawl, though that was actually really funny even at the time.

But it's a DAY, you know? A DAY. And then your life marches on, only now your taxes are more complicated. Why do little girls (and teenagers, and young women, and not so young women) spend so much time and energy fretting and dreaming and fervently planning a less-than-24-hour-period? (Unless you get one of those super-awesome week long Indian weddings. I wants me an invite to one of those!)

ASPIRE TO HIGHER THINGS THEN WEDDINGS LADIES.

[hoppytoad79.livejournal.com]

Why do little girls (and teenagers, and young women, and not so young women) spend so much time and energy fretting and dreaming and fervently planning a less-than-24-hour-period?

Because that's what we're taught we're supposed to aspire to: being a bride. It's shoved down our throats starting at a very early age that getting married is the most important goal in our lives. Everything else is second to it. We, as women, need to have a man for our existence to be validated. And let's not forget that the floofy white dress, the lacy veil, the scads of flowers everywhere,...the whole (very expensive) shebang is the key to our future happiness. You're being married! You're happyhappyhappy! Share it with the whole world in a blowout shindig! So what if you go into debt? You're never going to get married again, so why be frugal and sensible? [/misogynistic crap and marketing hype] Life after marriage is idealized to the point of having no resemblance to reality because reality, as you pointed out, isn't pretty.

[lysystratae.livejournal.com]

I had to go google Candyland, because the version I had didn't have any characters, so I was totaly confused...

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I've been encountering this! So weird...

[cleothyla.livejournal.com]

Also, in Disney, aren't most of the Queens evil? Alice has the Queen of Hearts, who is definately not nice, and Snow White's Stepmother is a Queen and is evil. A lot of the mother figures in Disney are not that nice. Most of the Disney Princesses are Daddy's girls, except for Sleeping Beauty. Her mother is a Queen and is kind of glossed over, same with Rapunzel's.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Very true.

[booknerdguru.livejournal.com]

I did not know that they had changed Candyland so dramatically. I wanted to be Queen Frostine, not Princess Lolly, because being a Queen was hard but you had access to *ahem* ALL THE BOOKS and that was an okay tradeoff for me.

I'm not sure when the change happened but it's a troubling thing you've pointed out.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

It worries me.

[tieleen.livejournal.com]

It's not really just princesses, though. The message is constantly that the most awesome thing a person of the female persuasion can be is a girl, not a woman. Sassy, plucky, endearingly clueless heroines are much better than responsible ones who know what they're doing. And even with more-aware-than-average feminists, I still see people mention Girl Power very often, and refer to themselves as 'girl'. 'Woman' is somehow too embarassingly earnest.

(This is somewhat true for men too, with 'guy/s'. But I'm pretty sure it's less common, and there's a lot less of all the rest of it.)

[tieleen.livejournal.com]

I should clarify that I love some sassy plucky heroines, and even some endearingly clueless ones, but there are just so many of them, and with so many, part of the charm is supposed to be the little girl who dares to speak to the adults.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Not merely princesses, but married to princes.

OT: Check out near the bottom of comments here. Tee hee!

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

But...but...without a prince, how will I know if I'm pretty?

[vixyish.livejournal.com]

My idol and obsession out of all royalty, anywhere, any time, is Queen Elizabeth I. That woman inherited a throne and then held onto it with unbelievable tenacity; people are still writing books about her that say you can use examples from her life as excellent business tactics and life skills. Everyone bugged her to marry and produce an heir, and she knew damn well that as soon as she married, it was all over for her with regard to power.

Also, I'm being slightly amused and befuddled over here, because when I was a little kid, Candy Land was a board game where you drew cards and moved your token through the paths according to the colors/candies, and... so I read this going all... what? It has... characters? Even after googling it, I'm still trying to figure out how the hell characters even enter into it at all.

Amusingly, although I was born in 1971, the version I had must have been my sister's, because when I go to the website (http://www.hasbro.com/games/en_US/discover/candyland_history.cfm) and view the slide show, the board I remember owning is the one in the "1960s" photo. From the box photos, it looks like they added kings and queens and stuff in the 80s...

Get off my lawn, etc.

[serenity-valley.livejournal.com]

Also, I'm being slightly amused and befuddled over here, because when I was a little kid, Candy Land was a board game where you drew cards and moved your token through the paths according to the colors/candies, and... so I read this going all... what? It has... characters? Even after googling it, I'm still trying to figure out how the hell characters even enter into it at all.

Thank you for clearing up my confusion! I was all "the who with the what now?"

Amusingly, although I was born in 1971, the version I had must have been my sister's, because when I go to the website and view the slide show, the board I remember owning is the one in the "1960s" photo. From the box photos, it looks like they added kings and queens and stuff in the 80s...

This is strange. I was born in 1973 and the board I had was the one they say is from the 60s, as well. Mine was bought new, so it wasn't someone's old one, either. I would've gotten around the time I was 4, I'm guessing, so that means the 60s board was still being sold in stores in the late seventies; I'm wondering if the board they're showing for the 70s came out in, like, 1979?

[stormsdotter.livejournal.com]

I get a little twitchy when the subject of royalty comes up, because my several-times-removed cousin, James Steuart, would be the King of Scotland if the Jacobite revolution had gone a little differently. (Please feel free to pick my brain about etiquette and family obligations and all that nonsense if you need a frame of reference for a book.)

Frankly, I'd rather be a knight than a queen. Knights get to solve problems, not delegate someone else to do it for them. :) This is part of why I like Toby so much, though I keep yelling at her to have a better arsenal and be better prepared for fights. I do the same thing to Hellboy.

[hoppytoad79.livejournal.com]

I get a little twitchy when the subject of royalty comes up, because my several-times-removed cousin, James Steuart, would be the King of Scotland if the Jacobite revolution had gone a little differently.

Don't you mean Charles Stuart? I thought it was his forces that were crushed at Culloden, not his father's, and had he decided to ignore those who told him to turn back from his march on London, he'd have been King of England, Scotland, and Ireland (aka, the United Kingdom), not just Scotland.

[semy-of-pearls.livejournal.com]

The Ariel/Eric still as Prince/Princess may be because (historically) there were Principalities in the Scandinavian/Germanic states. I always got the impression that Eric didn't have much more than the main city and the surrounding farmland.

As for the rest, well, being a Princess technically means there is a King/Queen somewhere up the line to bump up the BIG problems. Don't know if that is what Disney implies, but it really does feel like the Princesses have all the glamor and all the fun, without too much responsibility.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Excellent point.

Disneyfication

[the-liz666.livejournal.com]

I was a kid who grew up on Disney shows and loved them, but I was very clear about my own identity. I never wanted to be someone else, if anything I wanted them to follow me. Especially Robin Hood, he was awesome.
Now that I'm an adult I sort of hate the term 'princess' the few times anyone has ever called me a princess I snort and say "I'm no princess. I'm the QUEEN."
I have a daughter now, and I find myself rather suspicious of the whole new generation of Disney and childrens television. There's a lack of intelligence in female role models. Like the girl in 'Cloudy with a chance of Meatballs' she did everything to conform and be an ill respected pretty idiot... And only decided to like herself for who she was when a guy told her she should.
Not to forget that it was Disney that signed, marketed and basically engineered the musical Careers of Brittney Spears and Miley Cyrus.
I know who a child becomes is far more than the sum of television and toys, but I just hope that all these toys that place a premium on being pretty and rich... and pretty... don't wind up making the next generation of girls too codependant and spoiled to utilize their potential.

Re: Disneyfication

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

I agree.

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

Western, American culture took its cue from Uncle Walt. Queens were old, bitter, and often evil. Rarely were they kind, or beautiful, and never young. If you weren't a fairy, you wanted to be a Princess, like Aurora, Cinderella, Snow White, that lot. Princesses are pretty, still the heroines of the tale and the center of attention... and they're also young.

As for those granted honorariums of Princess, well, one doesn't simply walk into Queen of Mordor. Princesses are a dime a dozen these days, no offense. But Queens? A Queen is The Crown the world around.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Sad but true.

[jane-dark.livejournal.com]

I'm right behind you on the weakness of princesses, but Ozma is, umm, constantly referred to as a princess. (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22princess+ozma%22&btnG=Search+Books&tbs=bks:1&tbo=1#q=%22princess+ozma%22&hl=en&tbo=1&tbs=bks:1&ei=xIwaTcbgNY66sAPi2-ytAg&start=10&sa=N&fp=1a1a8ce92fba2198) Maybe that's why she's often rather incompetent?*

Lucy and Susan Pevensie go straight to being queens, though, as I recall. No halfway point of princess for them.

* I didn't always think of her this way, but Mari Ness' series at Tor.com has made me see her in an entirely different light.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

She's also referred to as empress and queen. She's initially "Empress of Oz" in the text I have.

[tygerversionx.livejournal.com]

OooooOOOOOooooohhhh, you've reminded me of Atlantis. I think I need to rewatch that now for the Kida love.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

It's brilliant.

[janeg.livejournal.com]

Being a princess never appealed to me. I am about the same age as Princess Anne in England, and I always liked her love of horses and willingness to take risks, but it was clear to me from a young age that she was less important than her brothers and would never be allowed to hold a position of power. There would always be some male higher than her in the line to the throne, so Elizabeth II would be the last for quite some time.

It is time we stopped demonizing queens and stepmothers. Disney needed therapy.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[saruby.livejournal.com]

Disney is probably the root of this, but I suspect that Diana, Princess of Wales, fits in there somewhere. After all, who wants to be a queen in a funny looking hat? Most real queens today are relatively unknown outside their own countries (Elizabeth is the exception). OK, so there are only 3 ruling queens today. But all are relatively old and little girls have a hard time conceiving of themselves much older than 20.

However, I'm with you. Queens rule (in every possible meaning)!

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Yes!

[penprickle.livejournal.com]

Linked. Thank you.

[seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com]

Very welcome.