seanan_mcguire | Because You Asked: Riding the Crazy Train.

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Because You Asked: Riding the Crazy Train.

I recently volunteered to make five detailed blog posts on things people wanted to know about the Toby universe, and provided a dedicated thread for them to make their suggestions. While these posts will not be specifically spoiler-y for published books, they will provide background material on the universe, and can be viewed as part of my functional canon. This is the fifth such post, and hence the last, for right now. Thanks for playing!

ellie101 says, "Amandine apparently went off the deep end in a big way, now she's only seen frolicking about the forest in ripped up clothes and such. Is there some kind of sanitarium for the fae that lose a few marbles? Does the Queen keep them locked in a dungeon somewhere? Or do the fae, taking a nod to the Hippie adage of "live and let live" just let the crazies roam?"

Further: "And building off of this burning question, if your crazy fae is a land/title owner is it then passed down, or since they're still around does it just stay theirs forever?"

Let's talk about the fae's rather casual approach to sanity, shall we?

Lots of people have noted that there seems to be a relatively, well, high number of seriously unstable individuals in Toby's world. Some of this is biological (please don't ask; much will be made clear in Late Eclipses), and some of it is just that when you're going to live forever, you get really, really, REALLY bored. Older fae disassociate themselves completely from the world on occasion, simply because the weight of everything they've seen and done and been and are can get to be too much for them to bear. They'll spend a few decades wandering the hills and dales, purging their psychic baggage, and then come back just fine, if somewhat divorced from the emotional context of their own memories. Fae madness is not an exact cognate for human mental illness. It is, ironically, how they stay sane.

Amandine is very young for this kind of crazy, being only around five hundred years old, but she's always been an over-achiever.

Fae sanitariums do exist, but are usually reserved for a) people who have been through some sort of severe trauma, rather than going naturally a little nuts, b) people who have been driven crazy, either through magical or mundane means, and c) people who have been brought in by relatives who don't want to see them get hurt. There's actually a real danger to grouping too many unstable fae in the same place, since there's always a chance they could decide to run away en masse and start a new Kingdom in the middle of the Mall of America. Most of the time, if someone is judged to be relatively harmless, they're just allowed to go wherever they want to go.

No fae landholder would turn away someone in need of help. So the crazier fae wander from knowe to knowe, being fed and cared for until such time as they wander off again. The ones who choose to stick to the woods, like Amandine, are likely to find food being set out for them in pre-established areas. In short, the fae treat their unwell like stray cats. There's not much else that they can do.

It helps that right now, all of Faerie is confined to the Summerlands, where it's reasonably hard to get hurt unless you're putting some serious effort into it. The climate is unpredictable but usually mild; fruit-bearing trees are common; game is easy to find and hunt; the monsters that exist are pretty well-aware that eating fae gets you hunted down and killed, and thus don't do it unless they're really, really sure they can get away with it. (Some of the wandering mad do go missing every year, it's true. So do some children...and some monsters. Crazy or not, purebloods fight back.) When some of the deeper lands are accessible, like Tirn Ailil or the Isles of the Blessed, things get a little more difficult. In fact, traditionally, the wandering mad were often exiled to the Summerlands, where they'd be less likely to get munched.

In the case of fae landholders who go mad, if there is no associated title, they keep their land until someone comes in to try deposing or otherwise disposing of them. Amandine has a tower that is basically the fae equivalent of a really nice house. The odds are good that she'll be able to keep her land until she sanes up enough to need it again. With titled fae, two questions come into play. "Do they have an heir who is ready to take on the position?" And "Do they have subjects who are willing to cover for them?" If the answer to the former is "yes," the odds are good that they stepped down when they felt themselves getting fuzzy. If they didn't, they may either be deposed, or simply have their heir step in as a short-term replacement. If the answer to the latter is "yes," they may well simply be covered for by their courtiers, who are unlikely to want to deal with a new regent.

If the answer to both is "no," well. They're likely to come back from their roving to find that they're no longer in charge, and that they aren't too popular with the new management.

So that's fae madness. Please keep in mind that fae madness is very different from genuine mental illness, and I am in no way commenting on humans with psychological problems by explaining the way things work for the denizens of Faerie. They're wired differently, both physically and mentally, and while you do get fae with genuine long-term psychological problems, they are the minority. Changelings are more likely to have issues with straight human cognates, and even they wind up modified by the differences in biology, psychology, and everything else.

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And the most obvious candidate for wanting more details (as one suspects A and/or B may be relevant), is a spoiler-laden (orthogonal to spoiled) princess. *nods sagely and look forward to More Books*

Presumably there's an interesting... uncertainty to when, or if, someone is going to come back, refreshed from their Mental Stability Vacation. This probably explains a lot of the, er, feyer faeness, really. (Fayatude?) It's got to do fascinating things to a society where allies and enemies (and oneselves!) go on Mental Health Jaunts with little warning.

Mmmm, alien race! No wonder these are so cool.

Generally, you know when it's coming, but not when it's going to end, if it's voluntary.

Slightly better for stability, knowing when it's coming, then!

It probably puts a bit of a strain on marital harmony if one spouse goes walkabout and the other isn't ready yet.

It's almost like an extended period of dreaming, while aware enough to do things like take care of basic needs. I mean, there's the theory that sleep and dreaming plays some role in processing memories. If fae can't deal with centuries of memories just by sleep, then a waking dream state might be needed to clear the tubes.

That's very much what it's like, yes. They "sleep" while awake, to clean and sort and purge.

It reminds me a great deal of the mad scenes in medieval romance, and the way Merlin and Lancelot would go off to run around in the woods naked and covered in mud for years before returning and behaving as if those years had never happened.

and some of it is just that when you're going to live forever, you get really, really, REALLY bored

I have to say, I've never bought into this idea - I know it's a highly prevalent one (you see it when it comes to vampires as well, the idea of boredom, ennui, stagnation).

When I think of the chance to live forever, it thrills me:

1. I get to watch the world and all its creatures evolve and change
2. OMG, I can read more books

How could one possibly grown bored?

I can sorta see getting bored with books over a period of a few centuries. I mean, Urban Fantasy -- there are some good things out there (witness this journal!), but some time back, I hit my tolerance level for Vampire Stories. It will take something really amazing for me to start on another Vampire Story series.

Taking a break so you don't see so much of the Same Old Evolution as it's happening, but can get to the real gems... I could see that.

Of course, were I an immortal fae noble, I would have my courtiers stock up on ALL THE BOOKS just in case, for me to read when I got back. >_>

Going walkabout might help with the whole evolution thing, too. Kind of puts it on fast-forward.

Think about all the clutter, though. Imagine being six hundred, and still remembering all the boring days, the meals, the illnesses, with the same degree of emotional immediacy. It really is like going into an extended dream state while they're still moving, just to clean, sort, and purge the debris.

Kate called it "defragging the hard drive," and she wasn't wrong.

This is an absolutely perfect description for me to use. I've got one of those freaky memories that holds onto just this side of everything with clarity & immediacy, although not always high speed recall. It's gotten very old & I'm only 44. I've started actively working on trying to blunt the edges, which has helped. Maybe I need to start looking for a gateway to the Summerlands & wander for a while!

Our human brains tend to take care of that problem simply by forgetting things - at least for most of us. While some memories will always remain clear and sharp, others will eventually fade, and some will disappear altogether.

If fae have perfect memory that never fades, I can see how some of them might wish otherwise and might need to do a "memory dump" every now and then.

Honestly? The thought of being 600, even if I had perfect memory, even if that meant remembering every boring day, is a wonderful thought to me. :)

These background posts are marvelous.

Interesting timing on the mental health post :) I have a question about OCD. Feel free to ignore based on either time constraints or personal boundry issues.

My son was recently diagnosed with OCD. You've been pretty open on your blog about your OCD. So I have questions. (See above.)

1. How old were you when you were diagnosed?
2. How do you deal with the down sides of this disorder? You've found the upsides for you (i.e. being super organized, having routines, etc.) but what about the irational thoughts and absolutly knowing that this routine won't fix the fear/problem, but you have to do it anywa?
3. Have you used meds or therapy (or both) to help?

Even if you can't answer, thank you for your time and being an OCD face for the world. It was easier for my son to get the diagnosis when he found out "the woman with wings" has it too.

1. I was diagnosed as potential when I was nine. It was confirmed when I was twelve. I was symptomatic from the age of six; a lot of it was just hindsight being twenty/twenty.

2. I know my triggers, and telegraph them clearly to people. I own by episodes. If I come over enough to have "my chair" at your house, and you take it, as I am freaking out, I will do my best to explain that this is my problem, not yours. I have mental loops I can run when I start getting stuck; most of them involve math problems, some involve very familiar "what if" scenarios.

3. Therapy didn't help much, but I tried it. I've been on Wellbutrin since late 2008, and it's done a lot to reduce the anxiety and stop the panic attacks. I'm not getting symptomatically more severe, although I do still have episodes.

I don't mind at all. If you have questions you'd like to ask more privately, you can go ahead and email me. And tell your son that OCD just means he can kick everyone else's ass at board games.

Your mention of deeper lands makes me want to hear more about them.

I wonder if you've thought of an almanac. You know, in your "copious free time".

Right now, they're all inaccessible. But someday, more details will be known, we swear.

Very interesting, and it makes a lot of sense. Can I ask how often do the wandering mad get killed by whatever enemies they've accumulated over their lifetime? Are there any precautions like it being more taboo than regular murder? It seems like if someone's long-time worst enemy's just lost their marbles, a fair number of people would try to kill them while they're down if they had any intentions in that direction anyway.

As often as those enemies can be sure of absolutely getting away with it. Keep in mind that Oberon's biggest no-no is murder; a lot of people still hold to that, even with him missing.

Edited 2011-02-25 20:11 (UTC)

Frack. I'm blanking on the name of Sylvester's daughter, which began with an "R" and meant "Rose." (I suck at remembering names.)

I'd really like to know why she hasn't been put in a fae sanitarium, and I have a feeling the answer is, we'll find out in an upcoming book. My guess is it's because she hasn't tried to kill anyone. Yet.

Raiseline.

She hasn't tried to kill anyone? Or just not that we know of?

Thank you. I feel the need to create a Wikipoedia page for the Toby Daye characters.

I don't believe she's killed any fae yet. If she finds out that Toby has kissed her husband, she'll probably try to murder her.

Rayseline, actually.

Neat info in an interview with Seanan at http://hagelrat.blogspot.com/2010/04/interview-seanan-mcguire.html.

Because Sylvester would never do that to his little girl.

...now that I've read Late Eclipses, I find your comment terribly ironic. Sylvester's too soft-hearted, and I have a feeling that will be the death of him.

It was that, or Simon.

You say Amandine's 500 years old, and in Rosemary and Rue, you say Sylvester and Simon are 500 years old. Did she grow up with them?

Taking a mental health sabbatical sounds like a good thing to do. Me, I just want a vacation.

Good question.

hee hee hee hee hee hee hee.

And my cackling has startled the feline overlords-I-mean-protectors.

I am extremely surprised by Amandine's age.

Also: So exactly what's going on with Julie?

Julie is a changeling, and therefore different rules apply to her verses the purebloods.

...since there's always a chance they could decide to run away en masse and start a new Kingdom in the middle of the Mall of America.

Actually, this would explain quite a bit about the MoA. :-)

Wouldn't it?

You've mentioned that you know the Kingdoms/knowes of most of North America. Have you thought of doing a contest where the winner gets a paragraph describing the fairy courts of their city/town?

No, because it would be borderline impossible to jam a Duchy in Missouri organically into a book, and if it only appeared here, I would forget about it and render it non-canonical.

These posts are so interesting! Thank you so much for doing them :)

Somewhat OT: is there somewhere (interview, blog post, idk) that I can learn more about fae genetics? So much curiosity...

Nope. Because fae genetics laugh at your puny rules, and give everyone a headache.

Lol! I'm going to assume the answer to all my questions is "Because it's magic." Or else, "Oberon did it." :D

Good assumption!

have you read any Heinlein? specifically, anything to do with Lazarus Long? [the "main" books are "Methuselah's Children", "Time Enough for Love", "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" and "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" - he's the main character in the 1st 2, and important in the 2nd 2 - and there's ALSO "The Number of the Beast" which mostly takes place in an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT universe than Lazarus' - but he does become a main character in the last... fifth? sixth? part of the book ] ya know, the oldest [provably - HE claims there are older people, but there's zero way to prove it, and there's only a couple anyway] person in the far far far far far far far future, where's his over 2000 years makes him a RELIC [the next-oldest person is a mere thousand years old] he was born ... he was born the day the votes were finalized to make Woodrow Wilson president [and Lazarus' BIRTH name was "Woodrow Wilson Smith]

but - a society of humans facing the same issue [memories atop memories, ad infintum, until insanity or amnesia spares one the overload] and the society created various ways to deal with it. lots of nifty sounding things - training you're brain to store memory differently [this was before research that says it's probably memory is holographically stored was done, of course] and "memory washing" - removing the memories and storing them on some other medium.
i have a book i've been trying to write for FOREVER where the whole POINT of the book is a small group of humans become immortal - and, after a mere 2 centuries, start killing themselves from ennui, those who don't find ways to go mad to stay sane.

it's an interesting thought experiment, and i'm VERY excited at the hint that there's going to be more about available on Tuesday!!!

do the Fae have any ideas on how to control their memory? i get the wandering to distance themselves from the memory, and make it less over-whelming, but is there more?

also: can part-fae inherit? like, can Toby inherit her mother's tower? could she inherit a title, if her mother had one? or is that spoiler-y?

I have not, really. Thanks for the pointer!

No, changelings can't inherit.

being that i have now read the book [i tend to not tallk about books until at least the second reading - i ALWAYS find more when i re-read] i'm pretty impressed with what you've done :) and i hope for even MORE - Amadine coming back again, for more than just saving her daughter, and all that - in October.

if you have time, specifically the one to read, dealing with memory, is "Time Enough For Love" - it's sort of foundational, in how people think about living for "forever" [White Wolf cites it for Vampire, even! and it was part of the inspiration for Highlander] if you have time for two, i'd also read Methuselah's Children, which deals with the reaction of "normal" people to a group of people who inherently live longer [which in many ways is how people would react to fae, if fae were real and "out of the closet" - a mix of fear and envy]

sorry - i was raised on Heinlein, he was my gateway into sci-fi [which is how i got to Urban Fantasy in 3 short steps... lol] so i'm a bit fanatical about him :) for a man who served in WWI, and helped build planes for WWII, he tried REALLY hard to not be sexist or racist [and succeeded a lot more than people give him credit for] and had a thousand thousand ideas that live one today - he invented the WATERBED [he expected it to be used in hositals. so he didn't patent it - and now it's only used by those who just want waterbeds...]
he's my hero :)

stopping the babble now...

He was one of the only authors I wasn't allowed to read as a child, and so I just never developed the taste for his prose. But thanks for the pointers.

Is there a "typical" length of time that someone is off "wandering" from the run-of-the-mill insanity? It seems this is not an uncommon thing, so I'm curious if it's just something others plan around:
"Oh, Amandine's off for a bit. I'll check in with her oh, in another decade or so."?

And does this ever happen with any of the Firstborn? An above-average Daoine Sidhe off in la-la land isn't that big a deal. The Luideag, however...

1) It varies. Usually you're looking at a decade or more.

2) Yes. It does. And they are usually left alone because OH GOD NO.

So I'm super-duper freaking late here, but I just wanted to say: Yay! I'm so glad that I got an answer, I was really wondering and your explanation was awesome. :) Thanks!

Very welcome!

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Because You Asked: Riding the Crazy Train.

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